Author, writer, marine artist, charter captain, lure manufacturer, ind. consultant
They say that experience is the best teacher. And I think they're right. And one of the most experienced big game fishermen of them all, one who I am proud to call "friend", is Captain Roddy Hays. He is right at the very top of the pack among the top captains worldwide that I have been privileged to know and learn from. His knowledge base is huge, including ID'ing tunas of all species. If this man, who has caught uncountable numbers of both yellowfin and bigeye tunas can't ID the tuna in that picture merely by taking "one glance" at it, I'm taking his word for it.
Perhaps it can be done, but I'm with Deep and Roddy, and in fact, every other intelligent, knowledgeable blue water veteran I have known since my days of fishing bigeye commercially and being required to bring in the liver and leaving the gas sack along the spine intact before the Japanese sushi buyer that we sold to would shell out the much bigger bigeye money that they were worth. That taught me something way back then and I have never forgotten that lesson. When true pros speak, I listen.
So it's quite amazing to me that someone "who knows what he's looking at" can take a mere "glance" at a picture of a tuna and differentiate it from a yellowfin when so many others can't.
I'll leave it at that.
Here is a pict of Capt Roddy releasing a big, tagged bigeye in Madeira. Also a bigeye, headed for the buyer. Perhaps more interesting to some, and to give you an idea of Roddy's knowledge and skill, is the little lure pictured.
This lure making innovator and true guru created this lure, which is very tiny and is appropriately named "The Pixie", to catch Madeiran bigeye that used to ball up and push a species of baitfish, the name of which escapes me, up to the surface and feed on them madly, but they wouldn't touch anything else. So, Roddy created a lure to match that particular hatch and proceeded to kick bigeye asses. To this day, my guys still run it and knock big fish silly, including wahoos, on it when the fish are on tiny bait. (The wahoo and big tuna teeth are the reason for the wire in the picture. This is one of my personal Pixies.)
Just one of many reasons why I have so much respect for this true professional. He is truly something else...
And he respects other fishermen, known or obscure. He may not always be right (he's pretty damned close, though!) and more than often disagrees with some, but if he disagrees with something or someone, he usaully finds polite ways of doing so.
Class.
Roddy tagging a bigeye. The mighty Pixie. One that went to market (thanks, Jeff!)
In the pic the pec fin looks short because it is swept back alot more than a Bigeye would be. The tail notch says all yft but the picture isn't clear enough to show the trough leading to it.
Author, writer, marine artist, charter captain, lure manufacturer, ind. consultant
To me, at least, this continues to be an interesting discussion. Opinions, particularly those based on actual experience, are good and we can all learn from them.
Roddy has had a lot of experience with tuna the world over, including lots of hands on the bigeyes. As stated, I am with him and the others when it comes to IDing bigeyes. Split 'em open and we can be sure.
One of the things that convinces me that it's a bigeye is Roddy's statement that there hasn't been a yellowfin documented in Madeiran waters for over thirty years. That pretty much says it all as far as I'm concerned.
One potential reason for the fish being so skinny might be the damage done to its mouth and upper jaw. Bigeyes have a key body and head shape factor that produces a "pressure wave" just in front of its head. Myself and others believe that this has something to do with how they feed - specifically using it to shock and/or stun prey. Those wounds look old and scarred over, so this might have impaired that particular fish's feeding ability. Of course, I don't know for sure, but it is worthy of consideration, I think.
That pressure wave is why short, heavy jets are highly favored by those who fish for them, especially the commercial rod and reel guys. I've pictured one of mine below. It is from the Bigeye Troller's Bible book. The why's and wherefore's of this and other aspects of these very different fish are discussed in great detail in that book. In time, we switched over to specialized spreaderbars because, as it is with all tunas, more "chum" in the pattern gets noticed and attracts more fish than a couple of single lures. This made the multiples that we loved so much on those very valuable fish happen a lot more often.
The jet in the pict has been wahoo-chawed...sorry!
Last edited by Captain Fred Archer; 11-08-2009 at 01:07 PM.
from the picture i could not tell, but the gills rakes would be the simplest way to id on board without cleaning/cutting. the most positive id, as has been mentioned, is by the liver.
Bigeye tuna
Thunnus obesus
Stocky body and large eye characterize the species. The pectoral fin reaches the 2nd dorsal fin. The margin of the ventral surface of the liver is striated; the center lobe of the liver is larger than the other two lobes. A swimbladder is present, and there are 23-31 gill rakers on the first gill arch.The 1st dorsal fin is deep yellow, and the 2nd dorsal and anal fins are brownish or yellowish with narrow black edges. The finlets are yellow with dark edges. Generally no markings on body, but in live specimens a lateral iridescent blue band runs along sides. Bigeye found in U.S. waters usually exceed 100 pounds.
Yellowfin tuna
Thunnus albacares
Fusiform body, more slender than that of bluefin or bigeye. Small eyes and head, longer 2nd dorsal and anal fins than any other tuna (which get longer with age). The liver is without striations on the ventral surface, and a swimbladder is present. Thereare 26-35 gill rakers on the first gill arch. The pectoral fins usually reach beyond the
origin of the 2nd dorsal fin but not beyond the end of its base. Yellowfin have a dark blue back with a yellow lateral band on the upper sides. The lower sides and belly are silvery-gray, often with chains of white vertical lines and spots. The 2nd dorsal and anal fins are yellow, and the finlets are yellow with a narrow black margin.
Last edited by Capt. Jon Tennant; 11-08-2009 at 03:28 PM.
My comment might seem like it is out of left field but I have been confused by a picture or two of big marlin. Most of the time the confusion spawns from a less than perfect picture of a marlin jumping or a fish that is several feet underwater when boatside. Some pictures make me scratch my head and say "Well, that's definitely a....uhhhh.....blueish black, no, a blackish blue". There is an obvious difference; large marlin don't have to be dissected for a confirmation. However, there are rare occasions where fish seem to have features of both species of large marlin. I've been on boats when those on board come in with different catch reports. Half the boat is calling the days catch 1 blue and 1 black and the other half is calling it two blues.
This thread is proof that pictures are always worth a good debate.
It looks like the finlets have black tips on them , which according to a marine biologist at a tournament I spoke to says is one of the identifiers associated with a Big eye , and of course the liver. I saw a 56 lb Big eye that was weighed in that was first thought to be a yellowfin by all of the guys on the dock. This is how the discussion got started with the biologist
Per the ID link, there are exceptioins, particularly with coloring and markings, so you have to look at the physical items in totality. Yes I see some black on the rear dorsal finlets, but not on all of them as you would in a bigeye. More importantly, the body section from the second dorsal and ventral fins (a.k.a. Allison Fins or sicles) is much more elongate as you would expect to see in a YFT, not a bigeye. You can't rationalize that by just saying it was skinny due to an eating disorder or injury. Elongate is a body shape and the YFT is significantly an obviously (to the naked eye) longer in that section of the body than a bigeye. Add in the notches on the tail, short pects with absence of curved tips, etc. and its a YFT. I had this check by one of the biologists at the IATTC who's caught over 30,000 Bigeye in his reasearch with rec caught ones to 230 lbs on his boat, plus YFT including one over 300 lbs for him and a 330 for his father on their most recent archival tagging trip to Clarion and he said it's a YFT.
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