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Thread: TROLLING SPREADS..COLOR OR ACTION ?

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    Anthony's Ark is a blowboater tom@marlinstar's Avatar
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    TROLLING SPREADS..COLOR OR ACTION ?

    One of the great things about fishing is that there is no actual formula or science when it comes to catching.In particular,trolling for marlin is as close to treasure hunting as you can get.Hours and hours of trolling over temp. breaks,structure and chlorophyll breaks never yield the same treasure twice.This mystique is what drives men to spend ungodly amounts of time and money pursuing the ultimate catch.This being said,I propose the question..Would you pick a lure with color over action or a lure that swims and pops and dives over color.Obviously you CAN have both but this is a hypothetical question.Think of it in these terms.You are fishing a marlin tournament in Hawaii.You have the option of trolling 5 fantastic swimming/popping lures or 5 lures of the most successful color schemes of those waters.Which spread would you go with?
    Last edited by tom@marlinstar; 05-30-2007 at 12:53 AM.

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    Stop staring at my Avatar. JOE_DIRT's Avatar
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    I am a beginner at the offshore world as far as knowledge goes, but I would say I would prefer action over color. All the different color variations of the same type fish I have seen would lead me to that. I just saw an article on mahi's in Saltwater Sportsman and it showed 5 (I think) very different variations in their colors. I would also think they would be drawn to the vibration of a lure that had alot of action. Again, I am a beginner so if I am dead wrong on this - It's not my fault!!

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    Anthony's Ark is a blowboater tom@marlinstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom@marlinstar View Post
    One of the great things about fishing is that there is no actual formula or science when it comes to catching.In particular,trolling for marlin is as close to treasure hunting as you can get.Hours and hours of trolling over temp. breaks,structure and chlorophyll breaks never yield the same treasure twice.This mystique is what drives men to spend ungodly amounts of time and money pursuing the ultimate catch.This being said,I propose the question..Would you pick a lure with color over action or a lure that swims and pops and dives over color.Obviously you CAN have both but this is a hypothetical question.Think of it in these terms.You are fishing a marlin tournament in Hawaii.You have the option of trolling 5 fantastic swimming/popping lures or 5 lures of the most successful color schemes of those waters.Which spread would you go with?
    I will offer my insight to this question proposed a few weeks ago.I would pick color over performance during tournament time.When money is on the line it would be foolish to deviate from lures that imitate the indigenous bait fish of that said location.

  4. #4
    Sit down Shut up And fish Roddy Hays's Avatar
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    This might help or confuse you :

    I wrote this recently for New Zealand Fishing news. It'll be drivel to some and maybe help others.

    "When one picks a lure, it’s often a combination of factors that catches the eye of the angler, be it colour, head-shape or size. Each of these points should be considered when it comes time to put out the spread, and although they’re often a good way to choose a lure there are also other factors which must be taken into consideration, namely boat size, trolling speed, and engine configuration. Outrigger positioning also has a part to play, both in spread and height, as does hook-size and leader-size. We’ll consider everything in turn….

    SIZE - some anglers swear that size matters. The bigger the lure, the bigger the fish. One truth of the matter is that a large lure is very often more noisy than a smaller one, so it may well be more attractive. However, the downside to size is that a large lure may be difficult for a fish to eat cleanly – especially if the fish is small. Some of the "great" crews who play the marlin game remove the hooks from their larger lures and instead pitch baits to fish that try to eat them. This is in effect bait & switch and works well. Smaller lures might not make so much noise in the water, but they are easy to eat, and if you can find a small lure that really creates a fuss you should earmark it for a run. When it comes to marlin fishing there is not quite the same need to replicate the size of any particular bait such as might happen in a tuna fishery, since marlin are very opportunistic feeders and it is possible to tempt a fish with almost anything - many a large blue and black marlin has eaten a small lure after dining on a 100 lb yellowfin, for example ! But if you see fish very obviously eating bait from meatballs, it will pay to match the hatch if possible. There is also another problem with sizing baits, and this comes into play when thinking anglers start to develop spreads based on particular lures. A large lure, run well back from a boat, may then become a blocker, stopping marlin from coming closer to the boat where other, easier-to-eat baits may have been carefully positioned. As a good general rule then, it is best to run larger lures closer to a boat (where they can be more carefully monitored and run well) and put smaller lures further back where they may seem to be the weakest bait of a shoal, and also where a smaller bait is easier to run in the comparative calm of a weakening wake.

    COLOUR - much as been written and read about lure colours, and much still remains to be found out. At its easiest, colour selection is simply a matter of matching the hatch - putting a black and purple lure out to resemble a skipjack, or a green lure to mimic a mackerel, for example. After many years of chasing marlin, I can only say that I’m a great believer in contrast. I like to think I have a dark colour in my white water, where fish may be striking a lure from the side or from underneath (from various towers and fly-bridges over the years I have personally seen many marlin in front of a boat attack the closest lure to them as we pass - no choices, no hesitation, just a violent reaction to an object invading their space), and I like some lighter contrast in my longer lures, where fish may often be seen attacking them from some distance away and where it may only be seeing a lure against the deep blue background of a warm ocean. The obvious choice for me is to use lures which satisfy the best of both worlds, a dark back and a light belly, with a contrasting lateral line, and spots or stripes accenting the contrast. If you have a choice of a dark or light head to go with your skirts, you may be on the way to setting a spread of lures that may be well seen by all the fish that come into your spread. I tell many anglers that aboard many Atlantic tuna boats there are only two kinds of lures, black ones and white ones. Aboard many Japanese commercial boats the lure of choice is a white or porcelain lure. As a rule, I will try and mix colours in a spread, and although I might feel better if I have a green, a blue & pink, a black &purple and a red & pink lure out (for example), I know from the very fact that I cannot determine which lure a fish will hit first that colours mean not a jot, not in the long run, and especially when a fish might attack every lure in the pattern before departing ! Simply put, choose colours which make you happy about putting them out, and don’t read too much into what others may be running.

    HEAD SHAPE - this is an area where I think many people may be missing out on a slight advantage. There are many heads designed to do many different things in the water, and where a captain may choose to have a splashing bait in one position, a swimmer in another and a diver in yet a third, I personally think that sometimes a marlin is doing something we cannot think about or experience. We do not have a lateral line - but a marlin does, and I think a billfish uses that lateral line far more than we realise in the dark deep reaches of the ocean where we cannot go. To a fish that spends every waking moment of its life sensing vibration and listening to sounds, a lateral line is an important tool, enabling it to identify and choose prey items simply from the sounds and movements that it might make. Much of that recognition will involve the motion and sound of splashes, which means a marlin at a depth of 150 feet may not see a yellowfin breaching 500 metres away, but it may recognise the noise instantly - by explanation, an experienced angler can often identify a fish jumping on a moonless flat calm night simply by the splash too - and we spend every little time doing it. Imagine then a billfish fixated on feeding on squid, listening intently for the sounds of squid. Would it not make sense to have a lure that acts and sounds like a squid in your wake ? Likewise, if a marlin wants a skipjack, what better to elicit a strike from that fish than by having a lure that is breaching and sounding like a skipjack in your wake ? I sometimes think that this theory is an explanation for many things we cannot put a finger on - such as when a fish appears in the spread and nonchalantly fades away - was there nothing out there sounding or acting like the food it sought ? Or the fish that tentatively strikes one lure, then turns in an instant and savagely inhales another - did the second lure suddenly “pop” or “spit” water in a way that resembled exactly what it was eating ? Some of you may snigger, but as a broad example, only the most stupid of fishermen would pull a real squid behind a boat at 10 knots - the rest of us would know a squid is a relatively slow swimmer and should be towed much slower - and that’s just our basic recognition of a prey species. Imagine what a marlin’s must be ! So, if head shapes play such a part, what can we do about it ? I cannot answer in full, but I can suggest that you have variety in your spread so you cover all the bases. I personally think that the captain with four identical lures out will undoubtedly catch fish when the fishing is hot, but will suffer when the fishing is slow and the fish themselves seem to be selective. It is at times like this that the oddball lure will score, maybe something as radically different as a chrome & brass jet-head, or an aggressive Hawaiian tube.

    Of course, many of you will know want to know how I choose a typical spread, and while it’s difficult to answer precisely without taking many other factors into consideration, here’s a few facts. I like my shortest lure to dive below the wake, deep into the white water and downwards even further if possible. My long corner lure can be either a straight runner or a cupped face lure - something easy to eat but relatively active. The short rigger lure is again something that gets down and deep, either a diver or short-faced slightly angled or even straight-faced lure. My longest lure (I don’t run more than four) can be something a little more active - a swimmer or a splash bait. Fish that far away from the boat are often either shy or slightly disinterested so something that might detract their attention away from a leader or lack of exciting white water may often be the ticket."


  5. #5
    Sit down Shut up And fish
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    18 lb.Brown on fly: 6x tippet, 106 lb.Atl.Sail: Ft.Laud, 888 lb. Mako Cozumel, 950+ Blues St.T

    Wink SQUID SPEED

    As usual...a great read, great insights and great information Roddy, thank you.
    After some internet hunting, A squid's ("typical value...not their all-out attack") speed is about 24 mph and the average bonito (kawa-kawa) 37 mph...I never would have guessed a squid could travel so fast.
    Some years ago while swordfish we'd see what we thought were fish swimming through our lights....come to find out they were squid zipping through there....pretty darn fast...or at least faster than I ever thought they could swim. I always thought we'd be able to see them undulating...like an octopus. Wrong.
    I would think quite a few marlin strikes while lure fishing are marlin thinking they're chasing/eating squid...or so they told me...see Mikey for the interview (hopefully anyhow huh?).

    As to the hypothetical....it would depend too much on exactly what the aforementioned "local colored" head was for me to make a decision at this time...but tending to go with just about any lure Melton's has in their selections...especially a Legend Merlin...Pro-Range (hopefully that's in there...cring) please.

  6. #6
    Sit down Shut up And fish Roddy Hays's Avatar
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    Yo Fess,

    Glad you found something in that lot worth reading !

    Re your observations about squid speed - while I agree with you about them being able to do high speed jinks when in the lights and chasing bait, at most other times I've ever seen them, especially underwater, they don't really seem to be doing a lot. I would have thought 24mph was a pretty high average swimming speed for senor calamari, but hey, stranger things have happened at sea.

    Meltons and Legend Lures ? Hasn't happened yet and probably won't.

    Tracy likes the Handles and the hooks, but as for lures ? Well, he's sitting on a bunch of samples right now but either the price isn't right or he doesn't consider the spawn of a cod-catching Englishmen worthy of inclusion in his catalogue of jewels from Hawaii ! (just kidding, Tracy). Either way, if you want my gear you'll have to buy direct from me at the moment - pretty good rates and speeds to the US from down here. I just sent Fred Archer $5000 worth and it got to him in 48 hours with no duty or taxes. Can't be bad. Mr Poon Man is considering stocking them - maybe give him a jolt ?

    This season's newsletter is available if anyone wants to see what we've been doing around the world - just drop me a line with your e-mail address and I'll send you one.

    Roddy

    PS: don't forget folks, last year's July 4th Blue Marlin World Cup was won with an Andromeda, so don't go out this year without one !!


  7. #7
    Sit down Shut up And fish
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    18 lb.Brown on fly: 6x tippet, 106 lb.Atl.Sail: Ft.Laud, 888 lb. Mako Cozumel, 950+ Blues St.T

    Wow...

    I honestly suspected that you had some representation there, or here, I should say, sorry to stur-up anything..I swear on my reputation.

    Stuck my neck out on the Merlin....but almost went with the Andromeda!
    It seems to have a great hook-up ratio! Case in point huh.

    Fess

  8. #8
    Guppy Breeder
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    Speaking of Andies

    Roddy, where can I pick up an Andy online or on the west coast, usa? I've had a devil of a time trying to find one. I'm looking for an Andy and Franky specifically...
    Mark Daugherty
    East Cape Guides
    EastCapeGuides.com

  9. #9
    Sit down Shut up And fish Roddy Hays's Avatar
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    Mark,

    All our baits can be bought on-line by contacting our internet retailer - David Theobald (obald@ihug.co.nz) - who turns orders around overnight normally. We do not have a shopping-cart facility on the website as most people want to discuss their requirements first, and order custom skirt combinations for their lures. Have a look at the site to see what heads and skirts you want, then drop David an e-mail and he then deals with everything else, including payment via credit card.

    One of our clients called Ricky Smith just won two of the three daily calcuttas in the St. Marteen 3-day tournament down in the Caribbean (last weekend ?). They released five fish for the tournament, four of them caught on a 22 Quick-Change Andromeda. He was so excited he forgot to tell me whether they actually won overall or not - I think the money was more exciting ! If we can supply anglers in the Caribbean with lures I'm pretty sure we can do you guys too !!

    If anyone has a local store who'd like to carry our lures, just get them to contact me. I'd rather deal with stores direct than a major distributor !

    Thanks for the interest guys.

    Roddy


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