Spool size as it relates to Drag? CONFUSED!!

[Ace1st]

Was reading an article recently in one of the rags and saw where spool size is in direct relation to drag.

The article highlighted the "NEW" EVEROL big game reels.

It makes sense now that I think about it but it necessary to consider this when fighting Big Fish? Should one reduce the drag when the diameter is smaller while fighting big fish on other reels.

The EVEROL reels had notations on the reel showing the amount of drag being applied in relation to the size of the spool.

I guess my question is this really relavent and does the angler need to be aware and thus compensate for the increased drag pressure when most line is in the water. Then compensate again as the spool fills with less drag?

[Deep C]

I adhere to 1/4 the line breaking strength for drag setting as opposed to some who run a 1/3... I do this to compensate for the increased drag as the diameter diminishes... I see guys set em at "X" pounds... If they saw what it translates to way down the spool they'd crap them selves... I have my people nudge the lever back if it goes below half spool...

The way it works is say a spool spins five times per yard with a full spool. If you reduce the size of the spool by half it should take ten turns to release the same mount of line. The setting of the brake stays cionstatnt but when breaking twice as many revolution it has effectively doubled...

[shoefish]

The quick answer to your question is yes- if most of the line is off the reel it's a good idea to back off your drag a bit. Between the decreased diameter size of the spool and the amount of drag on your line, you're putting a lot more pressure on the fish than where it's set at strike. It's really hard to do (especially when a big fish is looking like it might spool you), and goes against your thinking, but you can pull/bend hooks if you don't do it.

[Sushi50]

This is an issue of physics and thus free body diagrams make it easier to understand.

Draw a circle of the same diameter as your spool when fully loaded then draw a circle of the same diameter as your spool when empty. Now draw a force vector (arrow) tangent to the outer diameter of each circle.

Torque (inch-pounds is easiest with reel spool dimensions) is equal to force (drag force in pounds) times distance (radius in inches from the center of the spool to the outer edge). Recall radius is half the diameter.

Since properly functioning reel drags maintain constant torque, as spool radius decreases (less line on the reel) more drag force is required to overcome the torque of the drag system. Thus the reel and line manufacturer recommendations to set drag force at 20 to 30 % of line test rating. Note that this recommendation applies to full spool drag settings, something they forget to mention since most people do this with a full spool.

Assume for this example that your spool radius is 1 inch when almost empty and 3 inches when full. If you set your drag at 30 lb when full, then the torque setting of the drag is 90 inch-pounds (force times radius). Now when your spool is almost empty it will still require 90 inch-pounds to pull the drag but your radius has decreased to 1 inch so the drag force required to slip the drag is now 90 lb. Note the simple 3 to 1 ratio of this example. Once you know your spool's full vs. empty radius ratio you can use that to estimate the drag difference between your full drag setting and your almost empty drag setting by simple multiplication.

Most folks don't see an almost empty spool with the fish they fight but some do and it's important to know the drag force changes you can expect versus your line test and the condition of your line and terminal tackle (weakest link, slight tooth frays or chafing, etc.).

Some drags are also less than perfect and if you were to plot drag force as a function of time on say an oscilloscope, you might see spikes in drag force due to sticky drag surfaces and other system imperfections. Break-out force, heat-induced change, and other dynamics (very fast force applications with wild-fighting, spastic fish as opposed to those who fight relatively smooth and consistent) are also factors that would be noticed in an engineering study using scopes, strain gauges, etc.

Some of the old Penn Intl's used to display these drag characteristics even when new, and they were not linear in drag force versus lever position, which is critical if you have to change lever position during a fight. Remember the old Penns where you didn't get any drag for the first 20+ degrees of drag movement then all of a sudden you get an ass load of drag as you near the strike position? Not good for chunking or trolling with circle hooks and other circumstances where you need smooth, linear drag force increase. Fortunately most modern drag systems are linear with lever position and don't chatter, thus the amazing lighter-tackle big fish catches we've seen in the past 10 years. Everybody has their preferences and I have been using Shimano reels for the past 15 years.

For winter bluefin I use 200 lb main line and 180 to 300 lb leader. I use 34 lb of drag at strike and this allows me to stay at strike position even when dumped by a big fish. I can add drag past strike as the fish tires but will usually ease off on the drag a little back towards strike if he makes a hard run late in the fight just to try and make sure line imperfections, dynamics, and poor hook locations don't get me.

Charley
www.sushisf.com

[misokat]

Those Everols are great reels, have 2 probably both over 10 years old, Dont know about the new ones, but on the older ones the drag scale is pretty close to what i read on my scales,
Great reel, simple and smooth, best part you can throw it all the way to full drag without any stops or buttons to push.My little one 4/0 still has original drag disk and still looks new- even after one 400lb thresher beat it up for 3 plus hours- good stuff.Cant figure out why they never caught on big here in the states, huge over in the Mediterranean with the tuna guys.

[Captain Fred Archer]

Charley,

I'll say this...that was the single best description of drag dynamics that I've ever read on the Web. Spot on, and remember, I used to design lever drag reels, including the ones that you have been fishing with for fifteen years. Hard, cold fact, that. I know drags. I'm just glad that you didn't get into drag cams and the various curves, other than remarking on the old style that went from near nothing to strike in no time at all. That stuff can really get heavy and the bottom line is, unless someone if fishing very old reels, it no longer matters.

Great job! I for one enjoyed the heck out of it!

Website www.FredArchersWorldofFishing.com

[Sushi50]

Fred,

Thanks for the comments.

I do have some cool little Shimano Beastmaster 15/30 2-speeds with the standard and optional 50 lb drag cams that I use for yellowfin and bigeye. With spectra backing they are able to handle most fish we encounter on charters and they are small and light enough for even novice and youth anglers to handle with ease.

I see Shimano has the new reels with changeable drag cams so I expect people will become more comfortable with the understanding of reel drag characteristics. If the reel mfrs would provide graphs of the drag characteristics, as well as spool full vs. empty radius ratios, it would help greatly with people's understanding of their drag systems.

Hope to meet and fish with you someday. Your side of the country has some great fishing and places to see.

Charley

[gman]

great post and description

[Flatdog]

Gob smacked!! I understand now Stunning !!!

[Ace1st]

Thanks Guys for the enlightenment! Your explanations certainly opened my eyes to a new way of thinking when it comes to fighting big fish.