Small squid teasers infront of Lures...???

[fishnNauru]

Hey All,
I was reading about "Poor Boy" high speed trolling lures the other day, and Capt. Archer said that putting a teaser small squid in front of them increased their bite rate compared to without a small teaser squid...So I gave one a go the other day and caught a small rainbow runner/kingfish/yellowtail whatever u want to call it. I rigged up a few more poor boys and was wondering...
do you reckon this would work with with cup faced lures too, or hex heads or bullet heads to increase their hit rate, without effecting their swimming action (esp with cup faced lures).
Has anyone ever tried this and what was the outcome?
Thanks for your thoughts.

[BahamaLure]

I have been putting small lures in front of big(er) lures for many years with great results!

[Captain Fred Archer]

FushNaru,

Looks like you've been reading one of my books, specifically Wahoo Troller's Bible or SuperBar Bible, in which I discuss the "why's and wherefores" of various kinds of teasers, including ones for high speed trolling lures - very effective and inexpensive ones in the Poor Boy's case. I discuss on-the-water-test results with and without such teasers in those books. The results absolutely convinced me that the teasers not only made a difference, they made a HUGE difference in fish raised, strikes elicited, and fish caught. I hope that you found whichever book you read interesting and I thank you for reading it.

As far as teasers are concerned, I can think of very few, if any trolling lures where their action could be inhibited or negatively affected by running a small, hollow squid preceeding them, creating an illusion of a small bait of some kind (not neccessarily a squid - hollow squids can also immitate fin bait) being chased by a small predator that to a big fish, represents a "meal with its guard down" - a very vulnerable target. I firmly believe that this sort of presentation excites a goodly percentage of game fish that are in negative or neutral feeding moods into striking. It's worth pointing out here that biologists will tell you that game fish spend much more time in those types of neutral feeding moods than they do active feeding ones, so turning them on is a very big deal to sharp and consistently successful fishermen.

I also believe that this illusion is even more attention-getting and exciting when the bigger lure is chasing a small, light weight, hi speed SuperBar or RuckusRaiser with multiple small hollow squids representing a small pod of fleeing bait, just as usually is the case in nature. That is why we produce light weight, hi speed bars (see our website for pictures of them) for running any kind of chasing surface lure you can name after them, with the same being the case with our surface/deep composite Spider Dredges for underwater presentations. I came to running my "regular" lures, including ones intended for marlin, behind small SuperBars the vast majority of the time and I firmly believe that this raised and turned on a goodly number of extra fish for us.

(The "Poor Boy" type of teaser setup is just one type of teaser/lure combination. It is specifically meant for high speed wahoo trolling and is fully described and illustrated in the wahoo book.)

Yes, other kinds of teasers can be used in front of single lures, soft birds (Moldcraft Soft Birds in the smallest size being my favorite) being a good choice on the surface, but I vastly prefer hollow squids, especially in the small pods SuperBars offer for these purposes because of their extreme light weight and ease of use and lack of effect on the performance of the chasing lure.

After a great deal of day-after-day experimentation for many years (a rare opportunity for a book author and lure maker that I was privileged to experience), I personally have far greater confidence that I'm going to get bit a lot more when my spread features lots of teasers on lots of LIGHT WEIGHT bars with some of my favorite lures chasing them.

And contrary to what some might think, that isn't BECAUSE I designed and make such bars, it is the reason WHY I designed and make such bars.

Thanks again for reading my books!

[fishnNauru]

Hey Capt Fred,
I have not read your books yet but a thread in which u quoted from the wahoo trollers bible about the Poor Boy lure that a guy on another fishing forum sent me a link to.
Thanks again you two for shareing your knowledge. I'll be giving it a go in the morning.

[92 feet down]

I have been putting small lures in front of big(er) lures for many years with great results!

I'll second that!

[seapower]

Pay attention when Capt Fred Archer write's his opinion's. I know he's got book's and lure's to sell, but I also see alot of wisdom that only come's from time spent "out there". Fred I appreciate your comment's, they for the most part make sense and line up with what I've seen as well. If this economy thing ever straighten's out, I plan on placing an order with you. Frank

[Roddy Hays]

I'll add one thing only to Fred's thoughts, and it's something that is a combination of his advice to me, and something I added from another fishery.

Don't put your squids, EVER, more than your average wahoo's length in front of the chase lure. Trust me. Four or five feet is ample.

[fishnNauru]

Hey all, thanks again for the replies.
Roddy I only put them about a foot or so infront of the chase lure...any further I thought it might become a target itself, which I think is what you are referring too with the wahoo length body thing. Do you adjust distance in front with trolling speed???
I had a great Hit and run on friday, but when I grabbed the rod and started reeling it was off... The line had some cuts and abrasions on it (and along with the long 1st run) made me think it was a good wahoo. I put another lure on, but not luck after that. Outside of landing a fish...a good scream of the reel drag is a close second I reckon... at least I was doing something right...thought apparently not all
I was curious about drag settings...particualrly when trolling fast, do you guys back off the drag abit or keep it at about strike setting about 1/3 the breaking strain??? I was trolling faster and baked it off abit, but then was trolling slower and had not tightened it up abit b4 i got the hit and run.
Also when trolling slower do you guys still prefer wire from the chase lure to the teaser lure, or just mono...I'm happy to catch whatever, and don't want to put no-wahoo's off because of wire. I understand that when trolling fast the wire makes minimal difference.
Capt fred reckons black, do you guys have any preference as to what colour and size the teaser squid is?
Thanks again for you thoughts.

[Captain Fred Archer]

Fishn,

They say that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" and that is very true when it comes to fishing. Please don't take an excerpt from one of my books to be "the be-all and end-all" of what I have to say on that given species or type of fishing. As you are beginning to see, things can get complex and that brings to mind a favorite saying of mine, "Knowledge is the key to success". My wahoo book is a distillation of what I have learned in over fifty years of wahoo fishing (a goodly part of that time - they have always been one of my favorite fish) and things that I have learned from other wahoo fishermen, mostly professionals. As someone very interested in the subject, I hope that you read it.

Some quick attempts to answer some of your questions.

Single strand wire, single strand wire, single strand wire - anywhere on anything when I am in wahoo country. My leaders are usually very short.

Drags. Fast, slow, or in between, I am a drag monster, in that I always fish a heavy strike drag at regular speeds (on Dacron Hammers) and when it comes to true high speed trolling, it takes a lot more than 1/3 of the line test just to keep some of the heavier wahoo lures from peeling line off the reel. IF YOUR CONNECTIONS ARE GOOD solid drag settings should not be a problem. If you are trolling with mono, mono stretch is a huge "pillowing" factor when it comes to hooking fish, especially hard-mouthed ones like wahoo. There is much more on this subject that I don't have room for here.

Remember, the object is to HOOK the fish, so why in the world would one fish a light drag that acts like a tack hammer trying to drive a spike in a board with one blow, instead of a nice, heavy hammer?? My goal has always been to stick the hell out of any troll fish unfortunate enough to grab one of my lures or baits. Once I've hooked 'em I have all the confidence in the world in my rigging and tackle. I consider lost fish a personal insult and sign that I failed in something somewhere. I know that sounds nuts, but that's the way that it is.

Fishing a teaser (I repeat, I prefer a SuperBar in front at regular trolling speeds.
the hollow squid and PoorBoy is for high speed trolling only) anywhere from a foot to a couple of feet in front of the chase bait is fine...actually, the closer the teaser is to the chasebait, the more it looks like the chasing predator is about to catch its prey and I think that helps trigger strikes. As a general rule, the faster we troll, the closer we run the teaser to the lure. Running a teaser way out in front of a lure is no different than running two different lures that have nothing to do with one another. Plus, a toothy critter bite off of a teaser means the loss of the chasing lure too. In the final analysis, if the lure is clearly chasing and about to catch the teaser, it will turn on fish, especially non-feeders that will try to kill the little predator feeding in its zone.

I discuss color a great deal in my books and again, it is way too complicated an issue for discussion here. The bottom line is, if I HAD TO pick a color, it would be black or what I call a "black and", or black with another color like red, green, blue, purple, so on and so on.

Sorry if my answers aren't as complete as you might like, but I have spent years studying all of these things, spending literally thousands of days on the blue water and learning from some of the finest fishermen in the world and years writing books and articles about my findings and I am too old and far too sick to be able to spend more time than this on a book subject.

A truth. Wahoo are very cool fish. One of the reasons why is that there are so many different ways to catch them. I love 'em!

And finally, yes, it's great that you got a strike. But it is very bad that you lost the fish. Keep on working and learning and don't worry, they'll start sticking and coming to gaff for you. You are doing the right thing...you are seeking knowledge and "knowledge..." ah, you know!

[000's]

those little mold craft birds kill the dolphin.