short corner lures

[Drifter]

What's your preference for short corner lures for billfish?

Interested in artifcial lures only- not baits (nor combinations of baits & lures).

I think one theory is to run a large, active lure in the short corner, but curious what works best for others.

Thanks

[reel fool]

Good question.
Unlike many fishermen, I like to use just a few baits. I do not have hundreds of lures. I use many of the same lures daily, keeping a collection of about 30 lures--small, medium & large, total.

Short corner--Bomboy Magilla, Joe Yee Superplunger, MM Big Dog, Kaita Straight Runner (red eye), BlackBart Breakfast.

There are many other good choices, but these are mine.

[Roddy Hays]

Drifter,

This could be a long one....

The short corner is one of the most difficult lures to choose. Inherently, a person who knows a bit about fishing will instinctively put a large bait there, as most boats do. Unfortunately, this then makes the hook-up ratio suck. Even though a blue marlin can consume baits well over 50lbs, the normal bait it will eat on a daily basis is much smaller, and so a fish attacking a large lure in a moment of unprepared lust may well muck up, not being in tune with eating baits that size at that time.

Some people then try to get around this by running a smaller lure with more action, believing that the amount of white water and noise will attract a fish which then easily consumes a smaller morsel. Again, this approach doesn't always work as a noisy bait instinctively makes a marlin's eyes light up to the extent that it again may muck up the attack and fail to eat the lure properly.

A third approach is to use a lure that has an easy motion and gets below the surface to present a fish with an easy-to-eat target. People who use this approach theorise that the boat and props are making plenty enough noise anyway to attract a fish. While this approach works, and hook-up ratios may be high, there is no way of knowing whether you may have attracted more strikes by using methods 1 and 2 above.

The other way to approach the problem is to use a huge lure, noisy as hell, and take the hooks out of it, removing it from the water as soon as a fish comes near it and pitching a bait instead. This method is again open to scrutiny as there are some people who want a hook in everything just in case the ONE bite they have on the short bait is from THE fish and they want to make sure it doesn't then fade - as can happen, even to the best crews.

Other factors to take into consideration involve tackle class (no use running a Breakfast on 30lb gear), water conditions (big straight runner from Henry Chee doesn't work too well in 6 foot seas), size of fish expected (don't run a small Super-Chugger in Madeira on the short bait), crew on the boat (to tease or not to tease ?) and boat set-up (pointless running a short bait at all on a boat with a pair of Arneson Surafce drives). Lots of things to consider.

All of Jeff's choices are sound, although for me the Magilla is too big, the Super-Plunger would be on the rigger, the straight runner is not a lure I use much any more and the Breakfast would have no hooks in it - too big for good hook-up ratios. The Big Dog would be just fine though.

If I had to go and run a boat and baggage was limited to four different short corner lures from different manufacturers - all to be run on 130lb tackle for 500lb plus class fish - they'd have to be something along the lines of a Joe Yee 505, an Andromeda from Legend Lures, a Lunger (even though both it and the Andromeda also make great long corner lures) and a 1994/5 Grander Candy from Bart. The 505 is a good all-round swimmer, the Andromeda a great diver with a big pop, the Lunger a good bet for those flat ass calm days and the old style Grander Candy is a just a damn good lure to have on the boat. All four of these lures have some huge fish to their credit and they all have a much better than average hook-up ratio.

All my lures are run out of riggers with a loop to the release pin, thus creating a small dropback. I don't use tag-lines if the cockpit/rigger set-up allows it.

My personal preference is for the deep-divers. I have lost count over the years of the amount of fish I've run over or run close by which then go under the boat and spin up and across the wake, eating as they go. The short bait is not one which is regularly eaten by the "follow and gulp" brigade, and for me a bait that spends a good portion of its cycle below the wash in clearish water is far more likely to get a run than one that competes with the white water, creating a huge difficult target that prohibits accurate eating. When a fish comes in from the side into the wake and any white water, it'll see a lure down deep far more clearly (this is why, if you don't see the short bait get eaten, the chances are the fish is stuck good and will come boatside ). So, get on down, as James B would say Indeed, if you run your short bait out of the rigger you're making the best use of the position anyway, since the short steep angle will make your lure get down in a reciprocating cycle. Run it off the rod-tip and it will most likely stay on top in that white, difficult water.

Look around the docks at some of the better marlin boats in the world and you'll find that a lot of them do not neccessarily subscribe to the huge bait theory. Some of them will be using them, but only as teasers. Don't be afraid to use a medium-size lure of 14 to 20 inches. You don't need a huge lure to hook a big fish, as has been proved over and over again, too many times to mention. Big lures make look cool, increase your testorone levels while lowering your bank balance, and may well produce strikes, but go to places where boats routinely hook big fish (Azores, Madeira, Ascension, Brazil, Bermuda) and you see the regular skippers who fish there all season, every season, using simple lures.

Hope this helps. Have fun !

[Barefootin]

Not to hijack a thread; but would anyone be willing to explain "short corner" and the other positions / names in a trolling spread?

Thanks,
Matt

[Pargon]

I've tried to read all the tips from the real pros, ie. Roddy, Fred, Bart and others, and tried to sort through these to find common ideas. My experience down here in La Paz is weighted towards striped marlin, but we get our share of blacks and blues (largest we've taken a 900lb. black taken on bait). The commotion caused by the boat itself is extreme, and acts many times as an attractant to marlin looking to feed. That will help to bring them in for a look. In order to compete with the boats' "noise", or to stand out from it, it makes sense to me that the lures close to the boat need to cut an agressive figure. I run one of Roddy's Andromedas in skipjack colors from one of the corners very often. What I like about it is that it is very consistent, dives deep, and runs a basically straight line. I think that hook up rates are better on lures that track pretty straight. This makes sense to me because the marlins' eyes are not facing forward, and when they come up on the bait the last couple of feet or so they are going for where the lure should be, I don't want the lure moving out of their way. I think that this explains many of the frequent face hook ups that happen on lures, and sometimes on bait. The Yee Super Plunger style lures seem to accomplish the same thing, but I like watchin' the Andromeda. I try to listen to these guys, and look for areas of common thought from them, as the laboratory for conducting real experiments on lures is one of almost infinite variables and I think that the 10's of thousands of hours that they've spent give them a history of observation that can't be ignored. As for lures in general I've had better luck using "better" lures. I suppose it could be just the confidence factor but Cogger, Akana, Bomboy, Legend all make lures that produce for us consistently. Some days any lure works, other days you need all of the advantage that you can scrabble up.

[WAHOONBOX]

What's your preference for short corner lures for billfish?

Interested in artifcial lures only- not baits (nor combinations of baits & lures).

I think one theory is to run a large, active lure in the short corner, but curious what works best for others.

Thanks

I HATE IT WHEN THIS HAPPENS!!! DARN IT.............


AND YOU ARE FROM C A R O L I N A ?............THE HORROR

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ARE YOU JUST BILLFISHING HERE? ??????? NOW YOUR THEORY HERE IS CONFUSING TO ME..... I NOW ASK YOU MY FRIEND,.......WHY A LARGE LURE ON DA CORNER? MY THEORY IS 30 LB YFT ARE GENERALLY NOT LOOKING FOR A LARGE BAIT

[BoundForGlory]

Matt - This is a link to page 42 of the Melton Tackle catalog it's a great starting point. It shows the lure position that Roddy and the other guys are talking about


http://www.meltontacklecatalogs.com/...catalog=070134

Rich

[Bert Rodgers]

I HATE IT WHEN THIS HAPPENS!!! DARN IT.............


AND YOU ARE FROM C A R O L I N A ?............THE HORROR

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ARE YOU JUST BILLFISHING HERE? ??????? NOW YOUR THEORY HERE IS CONFUSING TO ME..... I NOW ASK YOU MY FRIEND,.......WHY A LARGE LURE ON DA CORNER? MY THEORY IS 30 LB YFT ARE GENERALLY NOT LOOKING FOR A LARGE BAIT

Saw that one coming from here.

It doesn't matter what you run as it's a swimming mullet.

Bert

[WhiteMarlin]

Black Bart Abaco prowler in black green or blue color variants.....big cup faced pakula in black purple...

[Drifter]

reel fool- Thanks for the suggestions.

Roddy- Exactly the type of insight that I seek. While I purposely didn't disclose that I use lighter tackle, I can often take from the success of larger lures, then choose a downsized version for my application. For example, I like the Legend Merlin on the SR, but perhaps I'll give it a try at SC (instead of Andromeda, which is rather large for my spread). I also have smaller versions in BBL's Breakfast and Candy series, so perhaps they're worth a try in SC too. This theory of downsizing doesn't always work out, but then again, sometimes it does. (It's always fun to experiment. ) Though I usually run the corner lures off the rod tips, I might try them from the riggers as you suggested.

Pargon- More good info. Thank you.

'BOX- While I sometimes pull the traditional Carolina baits, my preference is lures. I've been dabbling in lure fishing for a few years now, and it's the technique that I enjoy most. I'm not talking about your beloved blisterpack GM's here (although I respect the fact that some folks love 'em), but real bluewater marlin lures crafted by the guru's. I certainly encounter mixed species, but "marlin" lues catch other stuff too. You're probably aware that this year's Big Rock was won with a lure. I'm not suggesting that lures will outfish baits in our waters (though sometimes they do), but that I simply get more enjoyment from lure fishing.

WhiteMarlin- Thanks for the SC lure suggestions.