Repost, Swordfishing... NDB

[Satans_Chariot]

Content only. I want to know what you've actually used, what actually works. I read a lot, and the stuff in the magazines is good to base ideas off of, but I want to know what the guys who are consistently catching are doing.

Im sure we all can come up with some real questions for each other. Ill start...

Having talked to a few of the neighbors who went out drifting during the last full moon, quite a few stories of guys hooking into very large fish, with 1 confirmed landing of a fish over 600lbs. I developed a few questions. Mind you I am talking strictly the night time, hand cranking manual labor fishery. I know the daytime stuff entails some rather crazy rigging and tackle.


What is the lightest reel class you would be comfortable using while drifting for swords? I have heard of quite a few guys using 30 class standup gear rather than standard 50/80 class stuff. Now obviously these reels are loaded with braid. And they are much more manageable when strapped in to the harness.

Next questions is hook selection.
10/0? Larger? While having had success on them in the past, the last drift I was on, we had 6 bites, 5 hookups and not one landed fish. Now you can blame me for AE all you would like. I can take the abuse. But after watchin 2 other anglers with a lot more experience than I drop fish as well after the initial run, it made me wonder about hook selection. I have heard the claim that swords have very soft mouths, yet the guys near me land them all the time hooked in the mouth, after a knock down drag out fight of 2 or more hours at 30+lbs of drag.
I understand that swords are messy with their food, and will slash at the bait rather then take down, so that would lead me to believe that circles arent the rule when dealing with these, as a lot of times, the fish come in wrapped up in the leader and not actually hooked. Thoughts?

How are you attaching your weight to your line. I have seen a few methods on this; be it flossing, sacrificial mono (like 10lb test), couple wraps with copper wire.

Im sure we can all come up with a lot more questions. Lets go.
Give me specifics, what works, when you tested it, why? Also specify the area.

[sportfishingusa]

ALUTECNOS 50W WITH 130LB JERRY BROWN.. ADD A 200LB X-TRA HARD WIND ON LOOP TO LOOP..

USING NOTHING BUT LARGE SQUID.. FRESH FROZEN OR FROZEN BUT DEFROSTED..

AFTER THE WINd ON I CRIMp ON MY TERMINAL TACKLE.. THIS IS NORMALLY JUST A HEAVY DUTY WIND ON SWIVEL. TO ANOTHER 8-12FT OF 300LB XTRA HARD LEADER.. SOMETIMES 200 DEPENDING..

END OF THAT IS A 12/0 CIRCLE HOOK CRIMPED ON.


ADD THE WEIGHTS I MAKE UP OF PVC AND QUICKCRETE AND SEND IT DOWN.

SOMETIMES THEY HIT AND RUN BUT SOMETIMES THEY JUST SERVICE SO I FEEL THAT A VERY COMFORTABLE 50W 2 SPEED IS THE WAY TO GO WITH A HIGHER GEAR.


crap sorry on the caps.. made them smaller so i did not have to re type..

it has worked wonders for us in the past and like i said in the other post the circle allows the leader to lay on the side of the fishes body and away from the bill..


And i will also say sometimes we put down with just a direct tie of 80 lb mono off an 80w direct to the swivel and the leader.. add the weights to the mono and send it down.. we caught a good amount of fish that way also.. i think they are harder to keep on the line for the duration of the fight then they are to hook.

[reel fishy]

We fish night time FL coast both Gulf and Atlantic. Rig is quite simple... Tiagra 50w or Accurate 80, 80lb mono on both. 250lb wind-on to ball bearing swivel to 10' of leader of your choice with your bait of choice rigged on the end. 12/0 circle hooks for dead squid and ladyfish or 10/0 circle for live runners and bluefish. Floss loop at the wind-on connection to attach sinker. My sinkers are rigged dropper style with a longline clip for connection to floss loop. Disco light or cyalume light is snapped onto the leader swivel with a snap swivel. 10-48oz of lead depending on amount of depth, current and bait. Simple and it works.

[Satans_Chariot]

Reel Fishy,

So your confident with the circles then? Have you ever had an issue with them not getting to the hook? Or pulled hooks? Would you say that the issue of pulled hooks could be more attributed to them toying with the bait?

Which leads me to, what weight are you fishing your drags at?

I know its pretty obvious when a bill has been rubbin the leader, no question about it. But how do you explain the issue with so many pulled hooks when swordfishing?

For instance, last time we went on a north drift, we had 4 bites, first one at about 20min. Middle rod, a rigged squid on a 10/0 at about 250ft. This fish pulled approx 200yds off the reel in its first run as we steadily pushed the drag up from about 4lbs at the take to about 16lbs. Fish settled in, then about a half a turn on the reel and it was over. The next 2 bites, we did the same thing. And each time, we had the same issue. One of them came up in the edge of the lights about 50ft from the side of the boat, had one leader lookin a little curly. On the last one, we left the drag where it was, at a hair under 8lbs or so. Fish was hooked up for about 10min. and then game over.

[JonnyD]

I love swordfishing, but they are frustrating as hell. Our average is really only about 40%, its just hard because of their erratic behavior on the bite. alot of times they swim right to the top after the bite, or swim around the lead with the bait in its mouth. Alex, we primarily fish at night out of a center console. We like to fish three jug rods, and three or four tip rods. We used to use balloons with a glow stick on top, but this year we are switching to a bullet dob with a light on top. Our farthest jug is set about 100 foot down, the second jug is 200, or at whatever depth the thermoclime is marking at, the third is 300 foot down. The tip rods are set from 80 foot down to 500. And at least one tip rod is constantly being dropped to its depth and retrieved. As far as the tackle setup, we use 80's and 50 wides. We tie a short double line and attach a swivel. We dont use a wind on leader and a trace. Just 8 ft of 300lb. which we attach to the swivel. The hooks we use are mustad 7652, it's a 10/0 J hook with a slight offset. We leave about a inch of tag end out of the crimp at the hook, and have a 12"copper wire on the eye of the hook. Insert the hook in the mantle about an inch from the tip, and then the tag end is right in the tip of the mantle. Its and easy way to keep the squid from balling up on the hook during the bite. Then we run the copper out of the mantle and through the mantle and around the bottom of the flukes. We attach our light 30' from the bait, and our lead is 60' from the bait to spots which we have flossed on the line, using longline clips. On tip rods the light and lead are hooked together and are 60' from the bait. We then pull off the measured distance from the jug and hook on the jug to a flossed spot with a longline clip. Our drags are set to about 22lbs on the 80's at strike and thats where we leave them on the bite. I would rather pull'em off early than fight em for a while and then lose them. We used to keep it really light and feed em on the bite, but I dont think it really helps. The tip rods are at strike as well, but the working rods have the drag lighter since the pick up is usually while you are cranking the bait in. We keep the drag to them the whole fight, unless we really get low on line, then we have to back off a little bit. I dont know if any of this is the best way, but its what works for us, and I hope you get out there and catch some. Jon

[Satans_Chariot]

Thanks Capt Duffy.

Hopefully we will get a couple nites of decent weather to do a few drifts in the coming weeks.

How often do you mess with live baits when you go out? Or do you save all those golden candy-bars strictly for kite born suicide missions? We have run into a lot of tinker mackeral lately and was thinking of dropping a one or two down. I was planning on doing a floss or band bridle similar to kiting the gog's? As for hook selection on a live bait, would you go with a circle or would you stay with the 7652? With your rig you have described, what was your reasoning for the choosing the J?

I understand light selection is entirely based on personal preference and experimentation, but what have you had the most success with?

[Captain Fred Archer]

Chariot,

How you doin', young'un? Fine, I hope.

As I think you know, I have been a sword nut for many decades now and have been fortunate enough to have fished for and caught many of them in many venues, including foreign ones. More importantly, I have also had the great good fortune of knowing some of the best guys personally and for a long time, with Captain Skip Smith unquestionably being my best teacher, other than my own experience.

This is a big subject, but there are some basics. I'm only going to get into two here, but they are two answers to two of the biggest issues, which are missing fish and having hooks pull. And I'll keep it simple.

First, those who miss fish are often using giant or at least big squid. That is a big mistake and the basis for thinking that swords are "pick at the bait" fish. That isn't so. It is a rare fish, especially an apex predator one, that dicks around with prey. When they go for a meal, they are very serious and aggressive. But fishermen forget that swords have small mouths for their size, so when faced with a big squid, they use that blade of theirs to chop it up into manageable chunks. After all, that's what the big blade they carry is for.

In the process of them chopping up a big squid and swimming around, picking up the pieces, many pick up the leader on those non-retractable fins of theirs (kind of like tossing a pissed off, live blueclaw into a basket full of yarn) and the sword itself, and the hook slides in and snags them somewhere in the body or fins. Yes, swordfish flesh is soft and so early on or if you are pulling on them like a little girl, later in the fight the hook pulls and the fish is gone. The incorrect assumption made by many at those points (there are many of those if you're doing it wrong) is that the fish was hooked in the mouth and that simply isn't so.

Swordfish flesh is soft, but one hooked in the mouth with the right hook can be pulled on like they should be if you are interested in beating and catching them, instead of dicking around until something bad finally happens, which will happen if you insist on pussy-footing around with them and are afraid that you're going to pull the hook. I really like what Johny D said about hooked-up swords and I agree completely with him...fight 'em hard with the right drags and if he's snagged or not hooked well, pull the damned hook and go hook up another while you're in the zone and they are biting.

The answer? Go to smaller squid or other baits. In my case, I don't use the small bait squids. They are too fragile for my taste. Instead, I started using small strip baits cut out of a species of giant squid that is present in Mex and California waters call the Humbolt. These things run from 20# to way over near 100. Depending on the size of the squid, we just carve out the strips in the right shape for drifting, or if they are the real big guys, we fillet the fillet and then cut strips. You want them thick, but not too thick. We make them about ten inches long. This way, when a sword comes to the light, which is what attracts them, not the bait, even if there are squid around, they scatter and the only thing left is your bait and there is no hacking it up or fooling around, it simply gets gulped down and you have a sweet, mouth hookup almost all of the time. Now you can honk on that fish.

You need a trick or two if there are a lot of squid around to protect your bait until the sword shows, but there isn't room to discuss that here. It's in the book. Check out that Humboldt picture...that's a small one. And the tentacles make great, tough baits too.

As far as those tinkers are concerned, I would absolutely bait at least one rig with (just) one and I would put it on one of the shallower rigs. And I'd kill it first, for the same reason that I wouldn't dream of using a live bait on a surfaced, daytime sword - you absolutely do not want Elvis running down and bill-slashing a livey to kill it. If you do that, the same snagging thing that happens on a big, deep bait will happen and you will lose the fish, nine times out of ten.

Don't be shy about this bait being small. I have caught many swordfish with little, tiny squids in them and plenty of small sardines, anchovies and tinkers or bigger macs in them. They are opportunistic feeders of the first order. And because those are surface-oriented, not deep baits, you can see why I'd put them on one of the shallower rigs, right?

The original small bait idea came from Skip. The fillets from the giants was my trick.

The other answer? Circle hooks, an entire subject in and of themselves. They are still new to way too many fishermen, but in time they will come to realize that they don't snag fish anywhere near as often as J's do in the first place and swordfish jaws, which is where the circles wind up if you are using that small bait mentioned above, are a lot tougher than their flesh, and it's a real bitch to pull a hook on a mouth-circled sword, plus as noted, you can pull on them like you should and beat them a lot faster than babying them.

Over, except to say, swordfish are dangerous as hell at the End Game! Do not think of them as "just a big fish" at that point or you could pay one helluva terrible price! I usually describe them as "mako sharks with a long, sharp sword instead of teeth" and I ain't kiddin - be careful and know what your are about with these great warriors.

Oh yeah, Purple Fever! I got it and I love it!

Catchin' them, not just fishin' for them, that is.

Website www.FredArchersWorldofFishing.com

[Satans_Chariot]

Capt Fred, doing fine thanks. Stuck on the rig, but thats another story.

So with the tinkers and other fin baits, your saying kill it rather than putting him down live? How are you rigging the dead tinker? Stitching the hook in it?


One of the reasons I ask about putting down the live bait is having heard of the success the daytime deep-droppers are having with the live runners and similar baits. I realize deep-dropping is an entirely different animal and would rather not get into that realm yet.

[Ron Mexico]

When we started fishing swords I used Blue's rig because of how well the squid was presented and it was readily available on-line. The first year we used that rig we caught our fare share of fish, hell we even tried it with a 20/0 circle hook which worked ok.

The problem with that rig other that it takes a while to rig each bait is that when the fish hits and starts to swim off and you start to move the drag into the strike position to set the hook (same way blue describes) is that the floss that is holding the mantle to the crimp on the leader does one of two thing pulls out of the squid or parts from the crimp. Either way the squid slides down the leader and bunches up in the gap of the hook preventing the hook from getting a solid bite and setting in the fish.

So where does this leave us? Well like Blue said there is more than one way to skin a cat and everybody has a rig they feel confident about and that is the 50 percent of the battle. After trying about a dozen different rigging techniques. I have settled on what is call the tag in method for my night time drops. I tie a bimini in my main line and to that I go with 15' to 20' of 200-300lb mono wind-on-leader with a snap swivel crimped to the end this allows me to quickly switch from trolling baits in the day to swording at night and visa-versa.

Now for the actual rig. I use 3 to 10 feet of 200-400 lb fluorocarbon, not because it is harder for the fish to see but what I like is abrasion resistance and the stiffness of the leader (which makes it easier to rap up the next day since it has no memory). But for the purpose of this rig the stiffness is what I like.

After I make a loop w/ chaff guard crimp one end to attach to the snapswival on the wind-on. I then slide two more sleeves on to the leader one I leave free to float up and down the leader the other I use to crimp my hook on. Once you crimp on the hook (I use 8 to 10/0 jobo, but hooks are a matter of preference) you should leave a two to four inch tag end above the hook. I then cut the tag end at an angle so that it forms a point (you can even sharpen it with sand paper if you like).

Now to rig the squid first I stitch the head to the mantel, this is easy just stuff the head into the mantel and with a rigging needle go through the mantel and head and then back through the side with your standing line. Then cinch down and secure it with a pyramid knot. Next you lay the squid down flat and with the soft side facing up. And place your hook on top of the squid so that you can see were you should enter and exit the body cavity (I like the hook to exit about an inch to a 1/4 above the head. Once you have hooked the squid the only part of the hook that you should see is eye and the bend were the hook has exited the bait. Now push the sharpened tag end all the way through the squid from front to back just above the eye of the hook and repeat again at the top of the mantle. The squid should now be sitting pretty straight on you leader, you may need to twist your hook and do a little fine toning but the squid should be secured to your hook and leader. Now with the extra sleeve from earlier, slide it over both your standing line and the tag end down to the squid.

If you have left enough of a tag end there should be no reason to crimp down on the sleeve it should just hold the bait secure to the two lines. But if you like crimp down and clip the remainder of the tag end. But by leaving the tag in place you can change out old bait for a fresh one quickly and easily which quite often makes all the difference in the world.

I am also a big fan of dying the squid red. If you have ever caught one or had one jump in the boat you will notice that they are blood red. On a long soak a rigged squid will turn white and not look very tasty. With that said changing out baits often is the way to go.

Other great baits large silver eel, rigged Spanish and Boston mackerel, live hard tail small black fin, yellow fin tuna and Speedo tuna.

I then deploy them behind the boat fishing them from floats with chem. sticks attached so that I can see each bait if the float goes under or lays over on its side you have a bite. I fish four floats and two baits straight from the tip, six in total and one pitch bait incase one swims up to the boat. I fish from 500 to 50 feet down. If you have any questions send me PM. I do a seminar for west marine once a quarter. I know my spelling sucks, but no need to rub it in. Good luck and I hope to see you on the water.

Angelo DePaola

Attached is a link to the complete thread this came from.


http://www.pensacolahuntingforum.com...4445-26-1.aspx


I have since tried a couple differnt rigs and have started to lean towards a double hook rig. With a pair of LP 9/0 single hooks. The main reason for this is I started using the jumbo squid (less pups), and the single hook of the tag end method left to much squid exposed, plus the LP is a thicker hook and I feel less likly to wear a hole in the fish's mouth so pulled hooks are less of an issue.

I start out by hooking the lead hook to the tip of the mantle, so that the eye of the hook is about 1/2 inch down the mantle, then I stitch the eye of the hook to the mantle. Then for the stinger hook, measure a length of line from the eye of my first hook to the bottom of the matle (this is already crimped to the lead hook before I start rigging then trimed if needed).

I then crimp on the second hook and repeat the hooking a stitching process so that the hook is hooked and stitch to the bootom of the mantle just above the head.

When finished the squid should hang prefectly straight with line to the stinger hook running tight against the body of the bait. Just my two cents.

[misokat]

Have to agree on the smaller baits, everyone we've ever hooked took a chunk for a tuna, a lot of fun on a TLD 20 ect, still waiting for the monster to eat my 24" giant squid bait!