Removing Billfish From Water - a No-No

[Captain Fred Archer]

Sanchoco,

Verdad, Senior. I hear you and am with you. But I guess the bottom line is that fishermen are going to do pretty much what they choose to do, unless rules are enacted that force them to do things like use circle hooks and release billfish in ways that improve their chances for survival.

And even there, there are those who choose to not abide by those rules and who continue with previous practices. Like all laws, including those against robbing banks, one has the choice of obeying them or not. A lot of banks are robbed by those who know that it's against the law, but they do it anyway and a very large number of them get away with it. That doesn't make it right, but still, some people ignore that side and risk the consequences. I see a parallel (that I'm sure some won't) here, with the consequences of course being very different, but still, the intent is basically the same. Apply that to any law that you choose to - it's the same for all.

Legal and moral issues aside, I continue to believe that to me, the issue is a simple one of "what can I personally do to help preserve billfish populations". And other than despising what the netters and longliners do, I make no comparison between the two - it is an "us and them" situation where I can't really do anything against the former, but refuse to allow what they do to influence what I do. The resource comes first and whatever little things that I can do to help it counts.

As far as not catching fish with circle hooks in them, I seriously doubt that it indicates or even implies that fish released on them or that have even escaped with the hook remaining in them die in any large numbers. First, because a vastly greater number of circle hooks are used by longliners. They use them because of their fish-hooking and holding features, and to a certain extent because they are required to (non-offset ones to boot.) Add the heavy snoods and basic good rigging that they use and that means that the vast majority of bill and other fish caught on them die. They are not released, as are many caught on J and more recently C-hooks by sporties.

Add the fact that as indicated on this thread, most anglers do try to remove the hooks, circle or J, and there are not likely to be many swimming around with circle hooks in them to be re-caught in the first place. The fact is, it seems pretty amazing to me that between the longliners killing the fish that they catch - and even if they do release a billfish, getting their hook back before they do - that any fish are caught with circle hooks in them in the first place. Thus, I don't believe that much if anything can be learned from the lack of circle hooks found in free swimming fish.

Down in the Baja we were the only boat that I ever heard of that used circle hooks for many years. The only other users until recently were the longliners who showed up ten or twelve years ago and began their devastating and dirty work.

Nobody, including us, was going to catch one of the fish that we caught and released because we removed the hooks from the vast majority of them. And removing the barbs clearly helped the ones that we did cut off, which were often very hot blue ones, throw the hooks quickly. I note two instances in my marlin book where that was clearly brought home to us. In both cases, the marlin in question jumped alongside the moment the leader was cut and in both cases, threw the now free circle hooks into the boat, one hitting the angler in the chest! (He kept that hook and made a necklace out of it.)

I would imagine that the more anglers that use circle hooks on a regular basis, the more bill and other fish that have either been released with the hooks still in them or the few that break off one way or another will be caught. Then, conclusions can be logically made on how the hooks have affected them. Of course, if most fishermen retrieve their hooks, hopefully by making that act so much easier by simply removing those barbs that make that act difficult otherwise, there won't be too many of those fish.

The bottom line remains, healthy releases of bill and other fish without hooks in them, regardless of the type, is likely a far better thing than simply leaving the hooks in them.

And to me, the ultimate irony is that when it comes to billfish, the vast majority are going to be released anyway, so why in the world not do so in the best way to enhance their survival?

Over.

[reefhunter]

Originally Posted by sanchoco

Laws Aside, Lets get our own house in line before we complain about others. If you could count all the fish killed by sports fishermen needlessly I bet it would equal the by catch. If there is a 50% mortality rate with J hooks like the studies show and another 20% mortality from poorly released fish and 10% mortality from stupidity of intentional killing. Add up all of the released fish and multiply by those percentages and world wide WE( non-commercial) fishermen kill 10's of thousands of bill fish each year.

Isn't it about time that we as a group do something to increase fish populations instead of just blaming the longliners. Ducks, Wild Turkeys, Deer and other hunted animals have made comebacks because the hunters did something to enhance their sport where as fishermen only take and complain. they never give back to the sport.

Granted mortality rates can run high. Pulling one fish out of the water for a photo op isn't going to hurt. When we billfish, we lean over the rail, cut the line as close as possible to the hook or if it's on a fly popper, remove the hook - flies are $30 each.

Fishermen have been at the forefront of conservation! If it weren't for fishermen funding thru the sale of their tackle, most conservation programs would never have been.

But, I gotta ask you how many your crew dragged over the transom? Guatemala.!! some blues are around.!

[mythosbeer]

Originally Posted by sanchoco

Yes, Hunting and fishing are similar. the difference is the people that do the sport. Hunters give something back to their sport by enhancing the environment and purchasing land to be used only for hunting. What has any fisherman given back to the fish(billfish). we only take and take and take. releasing a fish is not giving back to the stock it is just status quo. Duck hunters have payed farmers to build ponds and lakes. Turkey and deer hunters plant food plots and increase the food sources for their prey.

Should we not be discussing how we can reduce our damage to the stocks and what we can do to increase them instead of blaming everyone else.

First, I have no problem with not taking a fish out of the water if you are releasing it. I have yet to catch my first marlin and would have loved ot have a picture of me holding him, but its not the picture that I will remember, its catching the fish.

Ok, now to sanchoco. You're argument is not valid at all. How is a hunter planting food plots or creating an environment (ponds or lakes as you suggest for duck hunters) that would increase the hunter's chance of killing their target any different than chumming for fish or even placing a bait in a new area? Many hunter's are the ones leaving trash in the fields or woods they are hunting. Leaving brass and shells all over. This is not enhancing their environment anymore or less than fishermen. Oh, managed lands are much the same as having size limits or slot limits with fish. Antlers must be wider than the ears to kill it sounds just like a size limit to me. Lets see how many hunters go into the woods if all they can do is look through their scope and fire a blank at what they are hunting...similar to catch and release in my book.

The fact is that neither fishermen nor hunters are doing everything they can to protect the stocks of their target species.

Mitch

[Squidnation]

Hope i didn't miss this because I didn't have time to read the last part of this thread. BUt what about FADS. I know they are prevalent in Hawaii. I have fished them in Galapagos. I know everyone fishes them off Casa de Campo, DR. Hell I have even fished them in Guatemala......oops did I just say that

How about artificial reefs. I personally know a guy in OC that donated over $25,000 to have subway cars dumped in the ocean to create habitat for the Sea Bass we aren't allowed to catch anymore.

[SeaBiscuit]

Originally Posted by Squidnation

Hope i didn't miss this because I didn't have time to read the last part of this thread. BUt what about FADS. I know they are prevalent in Hawaii. I have fished them in Galapagos. I know everyone fishes them off Casa de Campo, DR. Hell I have even fished them in Guatemala......oops did I just say that

How about artificial reefs. I personally know a guy in OC that donated over $25,000 to have subway cars dumped in the ocean to create habitat for the Sea Bass we aren't allowed to catch anymore.

Correct brother Bill. Most artificial reefs (fish habitat) are built with fishing license fees, sportfishing equipment taxes and sportfisherfolk donations.

I feel I do my more direct "giving" to fish by feeding them live bait, yes?

Biscuit

[Squidnation]

Originally Posted by SeaBiscuit

Correct brother Bill. Most artificial reefs (fish habitat) are built with fishing license fees, sportfishing equipment taxes and sportfisherfolk donations.

I feel I do my more direct "giving" to fish by feeding them live bait, yes?

Biscuit

And I have seen you remove the hook out of every fish I have seen you have catch

[canyongear]

All I know is everyone who buys tackle pays Uncle Sam a vig..where it goes from there who knows..IRS form 720.

There is No by catch from Cows, Pigs, Lamb, Chicken, Turkey etc..harvesting fish for food creates way more problems than sportfishing ever does on a percentage basis.

[Patudo]

What is the standard practice in Guatemala, to remove the circle hook or to leave it in? If the latter, have any/many been recaptured with circle hooks in their mouths? More sailfish are released there than any other place.

[reefhunter]

Standard practice is to cut the line as close to the hook as possible, however no stainless hooks are currently in use. The wire hooks disappear in a few months or just fall out.

[billfish76]

I agree with watching what you post on these open public forums. A friend of mine was involved in this, (on the officers side of things) Here in North Carolina there was a new law passed for Blue Catfish in 2 lakes, Lake Norman and Baiden Lake where you can Posess 1 over 32" per person perday. There was a guy on a fishing forum recently that posted a picture with a story of how him and his buddy caught and kept 5 fish over 30lbs on night last month. (Data has shown that fish that size are over 32".) He also stated in the thread that a officer told him that it was ok and the law was a joke. That guy had officers visit him at his house a few days later and issue him a citation. (they used info from the website to get a name and look up his license) The officers said they monitor these forums and will come after people that they can find for posting pics breaking the laws. This one went further due to him saying a officer told him it was ok, but beware that they do look at these things.