All depends on sea conditions...speed...how your boat trolls etc....
If the lure is swimming, popping, smoking...and looking good to you it's probably going to get bit...if it's jumping out of the water, or laying there like a stick it probably won't...
Tweek em out to look good and put time in to see whats getting bit...
You can never go wrong with a senior wide range...anywhere....black outer with whatever inner you want...
Good luck
We like to run them in the shine wake off a rigger! We have a lot of luck doing so in a moderate sea condition. Check to see that the lure is tracking right, and depending on the boat the lure should be about 15-20 yard behind the boat.. I had lots of luck up here from the tails to the toms with this. Good luck
400lbs black, 500lbs blue, 750 mako, sail on the fly, 750 tiger, 150 yellowfin, 500lbs bluefin
If your using the lure for marlin instead of an attractor for everything, short on the flat is best. Most big marlin are attracted to the boat first then move back the spread. But, if your looking to get the attention of other types of fish and raise them to the boat....I would put it in the cleanest water behind your boat which is a long rigger. Make sure it is runnnig on the face of a wave. That is where you will ge the most action out of it. As for a shot gun I love a small jet head 9-12in behind a bird.
What I say here is by no means definitive and is solely my opinion, but here's a few points.
Point 1 : a big lure is quite difficult to run and control way back out of sight on a long line, and such a long length of line can let a big lure wander around to its own devices, making it a difficult target for a big fish to eat easily. Run on a short line, a big lure is easier to control and adjust, to regulate and to drop back, to tease away and change.
Point 2 : big fish are often attracted to the boat, which by very nature of its momentum, is very often the first item into a fish's territory. As a result, a fish will very often come into the wake close by the props and attack the first thing they see. If you have a big lure close to the boat, it will be easier to see and "hear". Select the right lure that gets down deep under the white surface water and you have already put many advantages in your favour.
Point 3 : a big lure should be run on heavy tackle. Running lighter tackle in close, and the heavy tackle far off, is inviting disaster in terms of cut-offs and crossing lines. While a big fish is welcome to cut off a small lure ocassionally, I'd get fed up of losing many small lures to the heavy tackle.
Point 4 : if you are into realism, a school of fish will have the smaller weaker fish at the back, so having your smaller lures at the back of the spread may well activate the impulse bite. In this instance it is well to remember that having your large lure in close may not result in more bites on that actual lure, but may be resulting in more bites elsewhere. It might not look as though it is doing its job, but it might well be the effective factor in your spread.
Point 5 : while many big fish are caught on the long lines, a greater majority are caught on the flats in my opinion, to the extent that if given the choice of one rod to fish on a boat I would almost always take the long corner rod. Just from that percentage factor, I'd run my one big lure close.
Point 6 : having your riggers set up so you can put all the lines in clips, and thus adjust the height, makes all the difference. You can then make the short baits do what you want them to do, even adding in some drop-back, to make the best of your lures and the bites you get. Remember, with some lures the higher you can put them in the rigger the deeper they will dive in the cycle.
Point 7 : more big fish are lost on big baits than are caught. I personally think this is because when someone buys a big bait, he runs it close to the boat and this is what will get hit. Chances are, if you'd put a standard "large" bait there, 14" - 18", it would have got eaten too, probably with more success. Don't be fooled into thinking that a huge bait will mean more bites and hook-ups. If you look at the very top blue marlin boats that lure-fish, you'll see a great many of them will not put hooks in a huge bait, and most do not even have one on board. They know and respect their boat's ability to pull fish into the spread, and capitalise on that factor instead of relying on an innate belief that huge baits raise huge fish.
Shot-gun lure : if I'm fishing for blues, I don't run a shotgun, instead I will run my long rigger bait back a further wave, so my pattern will run on waves 4, 5, 6, and 8, for example. I like to turn and get back on my fish quickly, and having all that gear in the water and limited hands to pull it in is not my cup of tea. I'm a firm believer that if you raise a fish, it will eat something in the spread if it wants to, the very vast majority of the time. Having that fourth bait a wee bit further back lets me still see it and control it while giving a shy fish that little bit more room.
If I'm fishing a general spread, and a shot-gun is required or demanded, I'll normally put something back there that is small and sub-surface, a rippler. A small jet-head of bullet is a firm favourite for most applications. The heavy the bait is, the better it will stay in the water and not tangle in strong sidewinds. Something that can sink if you momentarily stop the boat for a moment and then power back up again is an old trick for inducing a bite after a missed strike, yet it is surprising just how often it works.
If you want some advice on particular lures, PM me and I'll give you some suggestions.
Author, writer, marine artist, charter captain, lure manufacturer, ind. consultant
Thanks for the input, Roddy. Fascinating.
My views...
Point 1 : a big lure is quite difficult to run and control way back out of sight on a long line, and such a long length of line can let a big lure wander around to its own devices, making it a difficult target for a big fish to eat easily. Run on a short line, a big lure is easier to control and adjust, to regulate and to drop back, to tease away and change.
I concur. Big lures are better run close than long, unless they are big, hollow squids that run straight and collapse in a marlin or tuna’s mouth for great hook sets.
Point 2 : big fish are often attracted to the boat, which by very nature of its momentum, is very often the first item into a fish's territory. As a result, a fish will very often come into the wake close by the props and attack the first thing they see. If you have a big lure close to the boat, it will be easier to see and "hear". Select the right lure that gets down deep under the white surface water and you have already put many advantages in your favour.
Absolutely agree: the boat is the initial and best teaser of them all.
Point 3 : a big lure should be run on heavy tackle. Running lighter tackle in close, and the heavy tackle far off, is inviting disaster in terms of cut-offs and crossing lines. While a big fish is welcome to cut off a small lure ocassionally, I'd get fed up of losing many small lures to the heavy tackle.
I believe that there is a tendency in some areas, notably not such ones as Hawaii, Madera and some east coast venues, but in some others, to run tackle that is too small for the lures and hooks, the fish, or both. Worse yet, if you’re running lighter line in tight and bigger long and they cross, it is actually the heavier line that usually winds up getting cut by the light. Result – one expensive lure gone and most likely a missed fish to add insult to injury. (As lure manufacturers, I suppose that we both should want to see that sort of thing because it would mean more lure sales, but of course, we are fishermen first and we don’t want to see that happening.) My solution is to run big guns only when I'm in big fish country and to beat up the little stuff and get rid of it, pronto.
Point 4 : if you are into realism, a school of fish will have the smaller weaker fish at the back, so having your smaller lures at the back of the spread may well activate the impulse bite. In this instance it is well to remember that having your large lure in close may not result in more bites on that actual lure, but may be resulting in more bites elsewhere. It might not look as though it is doing its job, but it might well be the effective factor in your spread.
I tend to agree, but I also disagree somewhat here. I agree that the weaker link/links will be trailing the rest of their school and trying to catch up to it for the safety it represents, but in this case if there is to be a big lure in the natural equation, I believe that it should be chasing the little ones, not the other way around. To me, narrow, lightweight marlin-rigged spreaderbars do the best job of representing this, whether they are “chased” by a hollow squid that represents a straggler from the bait pod, or perhaps (run, children, run! Scoop up and protect the pets!) an Enke or (oh, please, please, don’t hurt me!) a wicked, deadly, dreaded Andromeda. Now that’s a natural, predatory juices inciting scene that a big blue one or humongous tooner could get the gobble down, growlin’ nasty’s over. Kaaa-Whomp! Gotcha!
Point 5 : while many big fish are caught on the long lines, a greater majority are caught on the flats in my opinion, to the extent that if given the choice of one rod to fish on a boat I would almost always take the long corner rod. Just from that percentage factor, I'd run my one big lure close.
More big fish caught on the flats has certainly and undeniably been my experience too. And that has been on every boat that I have ever owned or driven. My choice would be the short corner instead of the long one, but either would be a good choice for me. And yes, a lure that runs under the surface clutter and that has a long down cycle too, thank you. And is a dark color.
Point 6 : having your riggers set up so you can put all the lines in clips, and thus adjust the height, makes all the difference. You can then make the short baits do what you want them to do, even adding in some drop-back, to make the best of your lures and the bites you get. Remember, with some lures the higher you can put them in the rigger the deeper they will dive in the cycle.
I have caught way too many big fish on flatlined clipped down corner lures with or without built-in drop backs or ones run off of bent butts in the sweet spots to want all of my lures running off the ‘riggers. Good point on certain lures running better from high angles and getting longer and better deep cycles because of that. Like you, I really like lots of down time as far as the deep cycle of lures that I run are concerned and not only on the short ones, but the longs too.
Point 7 : more big fish are lost on big baits than are caught. I personally think this is because when someone buys a big bait, he runs it close to the boat and this is what will get hit. Chances are, if you'd put a standard "large" bait there, 14" - 18", it would have got eaten too, probably with more success. Don't be fooled into thinking that a huge bait will mean more bites and hook-ups. If you look at the very top blue marlin boats that lure-fish, you'll see a great many of them will not put hooks in a huge bait, and most do not even have one on board. They know and respect their boat's ability to pull fish into the spread, and capitalise on that factor instead of relying on an innate belief that huge baits raise huge fish.
Roger on more big fish being lost on big baits than are caught – and may I add, by a long shot as far as I’m concerned. However, I also feel that the really huge hollow squids do a very good job of representing really large baits like giant squids, skipjacks, dorados, little tunas and such when the big girls are feeding on them. To me, they do an excellent job of representing a crippled and thus not too fast swimming, easy-to-catch big bait and that “collapsing when eaten” thing, what I call “The Squish Factor”, results in extremely high hookup and landing ratios regardless of whether they are run tight or long.
Shot-gun lure : if I'm fishing for blues, I don't run a shotgun, instead I will run my long rigger bait back a further wave, so my pattern will run on waves 4, 5, 6, and 8, for example. I like to turn and get back on my fish quickly, and having all that gear in the water and limited hands to pull it in is not my cup of tea. I'm a firm believer that if you raise a fish, it will eat something in the spread if it wants to, the very vast majority of the time. Having that fourth bait a wee bit further back lets me still see it and control it while giving a shy fish that little bit more room.
I make no qualms about it – I do not like fishing shotguns for marlin or anything else. I want my lures in sight so I can watch them work and can move them to adjust for sea conditions and be able to tease fish with them, I want shorter lines for better hooksets, and I want my crew to be able to clear my lines fast when I get hooked up (probably on a short corner lure). And when I’m fishing for tunas and other schooling fish, which sometimes include striped marlin and whitey, I sure don’t want just one lure back there for only one fish to hit and then take of with the rest of the school or pod taking off with him. Instead, I want that whole school coming in and mugging every lure in my pattern. Sure, Pandemonium sometimes results, but then again, I am a huge fan of Pandemonium and cockpit madness, but only if I have my two talented crew with me – and I never used to leave home without those very important team members.
If I'm fishing a general spread, and a shot-gun is required or demanded, I'll normally put something back there that is small and sub-surface, a rippler. A small jet-head of bullet is a firm favourite for most applications. The heavy the bait is, the better it will stay in the water and not tangle in strong sidewinds. Something that can sink if you momentarily stop the boat for a moment and then power back up again is an old trick for inducing a bite after a missed strike, yet it is surprising just how often it works.
On my boats, or when I am in charge of running someone else’s, the only demanding or requiring that’s involved is mine, period, end-of-statement. Sure, I will listen to anyone about what we are doing, but in the end it is the captain’s responsibility (in this case, mine) to find and catch fish for my clients and so, it is my way, or the highway when it comes to when, where, and how we fish. I will take the credit for a good day, but likewise won’t hesitate to accept it for a bad one. I will say, though, that if someone put a gun to my head and forced me to run a super long bait, it would be the same sort of small jet that Roddy is talking about and for the same reasons, but that or those little jets will be running a lot shorter than most like to run them. And they will sink out and zoom up toward the surface when I get back into gear to pick up a bonus deep fish or two – just as happens with spreaderbars that don’t float like a pile of little party balloons or perch bobbers.
The typical great info from a true master of our game. Thanks Rodski. As always, it’s a blast to compare notes and to discuss fishing with you. It’s a real pleasure having you in the neighborhood here on SFC.
I should have made those points with a caveat : that they refer solely to spreads involving traditional marlin lures, and when one is fishing for marlin - as the poster originally queried. You know, and I know, that running Super Bars would be a different matter, as would the use of hollow squids - you've covered that topic succinctly before so I won't repeat here, but enough to say that I'd love to run a couple of spreader bars in Madeira in certain ways to see what happens, but only if clients onboard were happy to do so (the IFGA thing ). In this scenario it would be totally natural to run a big bait behind the smaller ones, as you're creating a different illusion.
I would hasten to add that on a small boat chasing big marlin, a couple of your beeg SB's up close as teasers (but without hook-baits) and then two big baits run behind them off the clips - whether a hollow squid or a traditional marlin lure - would be most acceptable and meet the IGFA requirements. I've turned a few NZ anglers into this method and they certainly score some big stripeys. It would be intriguing to run even just one like this, with a chase-bait on a clip, and then compare the number of bites on it compared to the rest of the "traditional" spread.
One other point I should make clear - when I talk about putting lures in the riggers and not off the rod-tip - I'm referring to the lures I like to run. These all work best off the heights I can give them, to reproduce that deep cycle I feel is most effective. Sure, one can run lures of the rod-tip, but it wouldn't work for my methods or my choice of spread. Indeed, a tube must be run off a rod-tip (though I have run them out the rigger in flat conditions - eg: Tracy Melton's grander).
Interesting we seem to concur on almost everything else. I know Bart's opinions would differ again (he's a great fan of the rod-tip AND of huge baits), so it'd be interesting to see what he has to say. Bearing in mind that THE 1656 was caught on an original sized-1656 lure......
what an awesome set of responses, thanks to Roddy and Captain Fred we are all very lucky to have such quality info so freely available!
my favorite is the comment by Roddy about having a large lure in close that may rarely actually induce a strike but it's presence in the spread often results in a strike elsewhere. Many guys back home in the Bahamas started using some of my larger lures (against their better judgement) as they are not used to large lures at all and took some persuasion to even try. Soon enough they nearly all came back to me and reported the increase of strikes on other smaller lures when the big one was deployed.
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). In this scenario it would be totally natural to run a big bait behind the smaller ones, as you're creating a different illusion. 
