Marlin Fishing with Lures

[000's]

Almost all of my fishing is with ballyhoo.Been messing with plastics for a short time.Here is the question.When using a single hook stiff rig with the black things(hook locks I think thats what the are called) on the head of the lure to keep the hook from turning.Which way do you point the hook? Found some info saying straight up is a good over all position for the hook.What about a lure with a slanted head? Even saw some stuff saying depends on where in the spread it is ??????
Im All about keep it simple stupid.Need some help please.

[Deep C]

Even on my slants I run the hook down... No need to get creative. You want that lower jaw as a target. Hook doesn't always set where its supposed to but lure runs truer with a "Rudder".

[000's]

Gotcha, Thanks Deep C

[WahooKing]

I run all my Marlin lures (single hook stiffy's) in the 12 o'clock position...different strokes for different folks

[Roddy Hays]

Hello 000's,

Contrary to what people may think or even tell you, the only lure that will run upright, all day long, without spinning once, is a slant-head, with a weighted keel, with a stiff-rigged hook and the point up.

Every other lure, with every other hook-rig will spin, some constantly - several times a minute - some maybe a dozen times an hour. I've been privy recently to watch a lot of very good footage of lures and hook-rigs underwater from Australia and the results surprised me greatly, though they did confirm for definite what I have suspected for many years. Other captains I know have also arrived at the same conclusion, independently, so it's not earth-shattering news !

Some basic assertions can be made.

1) if you are using a cupped-face lure, or a straight-faced lure, it will not matter what position you peg the hooks as the lure will always turn in the wake. In fact, in this familiy of lures you are actually better off NOT pegging the hook-rig and letting it swim at the angle it wants to. This way you will minimise line twist and the lure will swim naturally. If you desperately want your lure to swim the right way up, you will have to weight it, but otherwise it will no matter a jot to the fish - indeed, some people actually prefer their lures to run the wrong way up to imitate a fish in distress (though I have never seen an injured baitfish swim at eight knots....)

2) if you are using a slant-face lure, with no weighted keel, expect it to spin. It will do it, no matter what you do to it. You may suspect that it is running correctly, upright, but I can guarantee you that it is turning at least occasionally. Just make sure you have a decent ball-bearing swivel in your set-up, and peg the hook-rig to make sure it is in correct orientation to the slant - ie: peg it in a vertical orientation. This way, when it is running as you want it to, it will maximise that opportunity.

As to hook-rigs themselves, at its basest level, a single hook run on a line behind the boat at a slow speed "should" run with the shank down and the point up as the weight will be greater at the lower level. In truth, as soon as you put speed into the equation, plus some wire, a crimp or two, a thimble and then a lure then this rule goes out the window. Single hooks, 90˚ rigs, 180˚ rigs, 0˚ rigs, 30˚ and 60˚ rigs - they all slip and slide when towed with a lure in front of them. Indeed, some hook-rigs distinctly ride at the complete opposite of what you want them to do. There is almost no rhyme or reason as to who does what. And what the film footage showed most clearly was that some of the double hook-rigs lost their angle of attack quite distinctly at speed. A 180˚ could become a 120˚ at speed, and a 60˚ could become a 0˚. Nothing was definitive at speed with so many variables. The only hook-rig that could overcome this obstacle with certainty would be a QuickRig "Double-Trouble" - which is why they are so popular with wahoo trollers, I suspect.

It is only when a lure is put in front of a hook-rig that any semblance of order starts to appear, and it is the lure head that then governs the orientation of the hook-rig, at which point we can go back to points (1) and (2) above.

It is difficult for many people, some of them masters of their art, to believe in these facts, but film footage does not lie, and I know of many other captains like me who have spent years watching their spreads through binoculars and partly seen the truth. This footage merely confirms the fact.

Bottom line though, is don't worry about it. A marlin or a tuna rarely expects its prey to swim in a straight line without stopping, and they certainly do not worry about a baitfish slipping or sliding around a little.

So my advice to the OP, if the lure is a straight faced or cupped-face lure, sling your single hook-rig in the back of it and throw it out. It won't matter. If you're using a slant head with a single hook, you will probably get a better running lure if you peg the hook-rig with the point up. You should peg the hook, at the least. If the lure-head is large though, and you're using a small hook, the size of the lure head may well override any effect the hook may have, in which case put the hook where you want it, up or down. Down is actually a very good hook position for marlin in my experience, and obviously Deep's too.

Also, don't be forced into following the hook-size rule - which stipulates the hook should be equal or greater in gape size to the head of the lure. Most of my lures are rigged with 11/0 or 10/0 hooks, and I have caught many large fish with those small hooks. That's just my personal preference and it suits my way of fishing and the drags I put on my reels, but do not be afraid to downsize hooks if your hook-up ratio sucks. The results may well surprise you, but the basic premise is that with the same amount of penetrative force is is obvious that the smaller hook will penetrate further as principal body mass does not come into the equation.

And one more thing I noticed in the film footage too - once a lure or hook-rig started to turn, it nearly always (99.9% of the time) continued to turn in the same direction. One thing I was unable to ascertain was whether the direction of turn was related to the nature of the rigging and the many variables concerned with it, or whether the direction of turn was related to propellor wash or "roil".

Hope you've read this far, and this helps a little. There's a fella on this board who makes lures with keel-weights. He'll tell you a lot more.

[000's]

WOW. Thats a lot of good info. Thanks!

[Wireman]

Great info Roddy, thanks for sharing. Bahama Lure, how about it?

[BahamaLure]

Roddy's post is solid gold!

BahamaLures are designed entirely around a keel weight as I do believe that single feature makes a difference. Once in the water the lure has almost no friction preventing it from rolling so even a small weight in the belly will keep it surprisingly stable and overcome most, if not all, the influence the hook rig may have on the head's orientation. This takes much of the heartache out of making the lures swim in a lifelike fashion and can sometimes even overcome a hook rig that would otherwise have made the lure pull badly. Now that is not an invite to make a sloppy rig, keep the hook(s) as straight as possible as even a little offset will cause rotation, which is magnified the faster you go.

It is true to say that fish have been caught with singles, doubles, hooks up, down, or sideways or loose and I have no information to say which is best (because they all work for someone out there) OTHER than to say that you must always, always pay attention to your spread. My single golden rule is - 'If it looks good, it is. If it looks like crap then do something about it' There are so many factors that will make a lure look bad in a given situation there is little point in even attempting to list them, but if you take the time to make adjustments as you go then soon enough you will 'dial in' your lures in each position of the spread and over time predict what will run best and where in the given sea conditions for you. I actively discourage guys from rigidly pulling a given lure in a given spot no matter what as per the last thing they read on the internet or heard on the dock. What worked for the author of the tidbit may well not work for you. I will guarantee that the time you put into dialing in 'your' spread will pay out with lively running lures and the marlin that chase them!

Is a keel weight the B-all and End-all of lure fishing....no, can you catch fish on non-keeled lures.... yes, of coarse. I've heard of fish being caught on everything from bananas to flip-flops and coke bottles (albeit using bait and switch) but I don't recommend those for common long term use lures! The keel weight's value is over the long term, it's an edge over non keeled lures that will win out in the end as your lures will look and run just that little bit better with the keel.

This photo is of a BahamaLure PHOEBE 60, rock steady in the upright position with the lure face doing it's job bringing the lure to the surface to breath, then the weight pulling it back down and streaming the smoke trail.

[000's]

Man this place is the $hit.

[Pargon]

Man, every time you or Capt. Fred get into the detailed information about the physics and physical performance of lures and rigging as it interacts with the water, and the fish, I end up learning something. Pretty soon, with luck, I"ll be as smart as I used to think I was. I really appreciate the time it takes to write that stuff down, or up, for us and look forward to your next post. The willingness with which you and Fred share the information that you have gleaned from decades on the water is very impressive, Thanks.
David Jones