Collision in International Waters WTD?

[livetofishnj]

Ok, in light of this whole Senor Hefe incident I have a question. What happens when you have an incident such as a collision when in international waters or foreign waters, or with boats of foreign flag? What should you know, and what should you do to deal with the other vessel, your own insurance and local authorities?

This may sound like a basic question and Lord knows I'm a long, long way from having these concerns but there's definitely a few guys around here that it would benefit I'm sure...and frankly I'm just curious.

So you just had a collision (tuna pen not included) and you've got a foreign boat, foreign authorities and your own vessel and safety in mind, what's on your priority list?

And what happens if you;re not within a few hour's flight from a USCG base?

[PortlyRedhead]

This would be a great winter webcast with a USCG officer discussing incidents in international waters and the international landscape for maritime law.

[Satans_Chariot]

From the class I was required to take in college regarding Maritime law, I learned one valuable lesson...

Dont Scratch the F*ckin Paint. Bottom Line.

Maritime Law is one of the craziest things on earth to understand. If Im not mistaken, someone on this site is a Maritime Lawyer up in the CT area.

[whowantstoknow]

well on the insurance end, first make sure where your going is in your navigational limits....but if you are already there you should have checked already. And if it was an accident some policies will have HELD COVERAGE (which means if it was unintentional the policy will remain in effect as long as you make the company aware with in 10 days of the navigational breach and pay any additional premiums for the coverage extension)..i wouldnt risk it though......I got to say this is a great question - i even pulled out the old policy book to give you some examples of coverages offered - blah, blah, blah insurance mumbojumbo.

First asess the situation - keep details of exact location, the events that caused, take down the time, who said what, who went on whose boat. Write and record everything....

So from the insurance side of things - you should have already decided if you were going to place war risk coverage on your hull and motor as well on your P&I and Crew...Many policy will exclude war risk coverage - as well as terrorism...Now war and terroism in our mind is different than what an insurance policy ---- for the average..say 60+ Sportfishing vessel traveling in foreign waters a common esclusion placed on a policy will read as follows: THIS POLICY EXCLUDES ANY LOSS, DAMAGE, LIABILITY OR EXPENSE ARISING FROM....TERRORISM: AND/OR STEPS TAKEN TO PREVENT, SURPRESS, CONTROL OR REDUCE THE CONSEQUENCES OF ANY ACTUAL, ATTEMPTED, THREATENED, SUSPECTED OR PERCIEVED TERRORISM(notice how they leave it wide open for interpretation)....FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS CLAUSE "TERRORISM" MEANS ANY ACT(S) OR ANY PERSON(S) OR ORGANIZATION(S) INVOLVING.

-THE CAUSING OCCASIONING OR THREATENING OF HARM OF WHATEVER NATURE AND BY WHATEVER MEANS.
-PUTTING THE PUBLIC OR ANY SECTION OF THE PUBLIC IN FEAR.
-IN CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH IT IS REASONALBE TO CONCLUDE THAT THE PURPOSE(S) OF THE PERSON(S) OR ORGANIZATION(S) CONCERNED ARE OF A POLITICAL, RELIGIOUS AND OR IDEOLOGICAL NATURE.

Also many policy will have a War Exclusion - One states - We shall not cover any loss, claim, or defense arising out of any war, warlike hostilities, or war like operations (warlike is a very broad term). this includes declared and undeclared wars, civil wars, revolutions, or any civil unrest.

and another one goes on to broaden the term even farther to include - war, undeclared war, civil war, insurrection, rebellion, revolution, warlike acts by military force, or personnel, destruction or seizure for military purpose and including any consequence of these.

It is highly recommended that when traveling in foreign waters you obtain the endorsement to ammend this exclusion...coverage terms are broad and company interpretation can be mind boggling...

It is also very important to have all your certificates, documentation, passports, etc togther in one spot when traveling in foreign waters....fumbling around to find things is no way for things to go smoothly with foreign military or personnel. - Now say you were just hit in foreign waters and the boat took off. Damage was done to your vessel - this would fall in to your Uninsured Boater limit - when the vessel, and or owner cannot be verified or identified and damage is done.

so - say you get through the military, your comin in to the mearest port on one engine and your thanking your lucky stars no body came on board with machetti and machine guns and hijaked your vessel (however some policies will offer coverage for negotiation up to a certain limit- its the little things that count you kno???) now what - immediatly make your carrier and agent aware to get the ball rolling - i dont care if your sat phone dies and you have to buy a calling card for 40 bucks and the nearest pay phone is down the street....Contact someone to get things going - dont wait.

i dont have much advice for dealing with foreign military on international waters...thankfully ive only dealt with them on dry land ......but the main point is..you dont want to be stuck after the fact with a large service bill, and a denied claim. too many peopl just pick up and go and think they are untouchable, i got to say the tuna pen thing was a perfect example! I read that and thought WTF - who would have ever though somebody would have been so stuipd(sorry - said it in my head) to run over a tuna pen!.....but it happens, people hit logs, run aground, billfish punch holes the size of basketballs in to hull's - if its possible in your head it can happen.

[clt_capt]

Originally Posted by whowantstoknow

Also many policy will exclude a War Exclusion - One states - We shall not cover any loss, claim, or defense arising out of any war, warlike hostilities, or war like operations (warlike is a very broad term). this includes declared and undeclared wars, civil wars, revolutions, or any civil unrest.

So much for taking my boat north of the DMZ

[livetofishnj]

Originally Posted by whowantstoknow

Also many policy will have a War Exclusion - One states - We shall not cover any loss, claim, or defense arising out of any war, warlike hostilities, or war like operations (warlike is a very broad term). this includes declared and undeclared wars, civil wars, revolutions, or any civil unrest.

and another one goes on to broaden the term even farther to include - war, undeclared war, civil war, insurrection, rebellion, revolution, warlike acts by military force, or personnel, destruction or seizure for military purpose and including any consequence of these.

So theoretically if the Senor Hefe had been shot to pieces, it would be an act of undeclared war and therefore not covered?

Not that insurance would be your biggest worry at that time...lol

[Bert Rodgers]

Originally Posted by livetofishnj

So theoretically if the Senor Hefe had been shot to pieces, it would be an act of undeclared war and therefore not covered?

Not that insurance would be your biggest worry at that time...lol

Maybe not, but from the stand point of course of action I'm not sure that they wern't neglagent and I'm not sure their Insurance Co will pay for their damages and towing.

Who was standing watch? Were they watching the Radar?

Bert

[whowantstoknow]

Originally Posted by livetofishnj

So theoretically if the Senor Hefe had been shot to pieces, it would be an act of undeclared war and therefore not covered?

Not that insurance would be your biggest worry at that time...lol

----- i think i would just be happy to be alive! -screw the boat!

theoretically speaking if he had a terroism, or war exclusion - depending on the wording and interperation (see even i cant give a straight answer ) by the insurance company - yes...

Originally Posted by Bert Rodgers

Maybe not, but from the stand point of course of action I'm not sure that they wern't neglagent and I'm not sure their Insurance Co will pay for their damages and towing.

Who was standing watch? Were they watching the Radar?
Bert

IMO - accidents happen all the time, if you break it down its almost as elementary as running aground....there shouldnt be a problem with them making a claim - as long as they are properly covered.

[Bert Rodgers]

Originally Posted by whowantstoknow

----- i think i would just be happy to be alive! -screw the boat!

theoretically speaking if he had a terroism, or war exclusion - depending on the wording and interperation (see even i cant give a straight answer ) by the insurance company - yes...



IMO - accidents happen all the time, if you break it down its almost as elementary as running aground....there shouldnt be a problem with them making a claim - as long as they are properly covered.

Point taken. Had injury occured though who is at fault?

Bert

[whowantstoknow]

Originally Posted by Bert Rodgers

Point taken. Had injury occured though who is at fault?

Bert

Any injury resulting from the event that happened would be paid under the insureds medical payments.