Blue fin Regulations in North Carolina

[Heli Sports]

This posters statement just rubbed me wrong when he insinuated, no actually quite clearly stated, it was wrong for someone other than the "usual" fisherman to catch and make a living off of a particular fish. This kind of attitude plays directly into the hands of the "catch shares" mentality. These fish were caught by bona-fide commercail fishermen who were trying to do the same thing all commercial fishermen do, make a living. They weren't out to "steal" fish from another fishermans "quota", they were trying to feed their kids.

No, I said no such thing!

I never said that there should not be a commercial ABT fishery in NC! I said that it should not come at the expense of the New England fishery. I will stand by that! It has nothing to do with catch shares or your right to earn a living as a commercial fisherman.

If you were so keen on catching and selling giants, why didn't you come up to Gloucester or Cape Cod to fish?

During the early 1990's, when the U.S. quota for ABT was reduced, forcing monthly quotas and a shortened season for New England commercial tuna fishermen, it would have been entirely unfair to establish a new commercial fishery in NC at that time . Sorry if you don't understand that!

How would you expect North Carolina Snapper/Grouper fishermen to feel if their landings were limited because of new fisheries developed for these species in areas where they have not historically been harvested? Just hypothetical, but how would you feel if you could harvest less Amberjack or King Mackerel because all of a sudden some commercial guys started catching them off New York or New Jersey?

One reason NMFS keeps the NC season short is to prevent this potential scenario with ABT.

Just out of curiosity, did you catch any of the Giants that Will dumped in the middle of Burnside Rd. when he threw that tantrum?

[Capt. Jon Tennant]

No, again it's not. The Angling Category allocation is available to NC sportsmen well before there are any tuna of any size swimming off New England. The Southern zone is entitled to a percentage of <73" fish and a share of the trophy category. NMFS screwed up last Spring and allowed too many medium class and trophy fish to be landed in the Southern fisheries. It was not the fault of NC fishermen, but it's a fact that New England sportmen got the short end of the stick last year. I don't recall the Northern zone ever overharvesting their allocation of the Angling Category quota at the expense of Southern fishermen. Don't forget that Bluefin Tuna fishing is relatively new off NC compared to decades of landing history from the mid Atlantic and New England.

As far commercial Giant Bluefin fishing, the NC fishery exists only because of the decline in New Englands fishery. Should landings in New England return to historic levels, it's not likely NC will get much of a General category allocation. And this is of course the way it should be and there are a number of reasons why...

heli, quite frankly, that's bull-shi*. it's only been since the fishing calender year was changed from a jan 1st to jan 1st time frame that NC has the first shot at the rec quota... before then it opened june 1st to june 1st in conjunction with the 'traditional" northern fishery and NC would only have rec quota left if it was not caught first. This is not the case now... NC has first shot at filling the quota and just as the "number of reasons" you mentioned caused many lawsuits before, so it will be again if the NMFS tries to shut NC out...

matter of fact, until the sorry azzed management and reporting systems are improved to half of what we have in NC up "north", maybe it should be a "southern only" fishery.... enough abuse and non/under reporting up north is enough..... maybe that's why you were stuck catching rats last year....Karma & the fact that "all" the rec fish in NC got reported.

[Heli Sports]

maybe that's why you were stuck catching rats last year....Karma.

The NC Winter fishery began during the mid 1980's. I'm trying to recall a time when NC did not get an allocation of the angling category. Did this ever happen? Wasn't recreational quota made available soon after this fishery started? Did NC ever get shortchanged because too many recreational fish were harvested up north?

[Capt. Jon Tennant]

The NC Winter fishery began during the mid 1980's. I'm trying to recall a time when NC did not get an allocation of the angling category. Did this ever happen? Wasn't recreational quota made available soon after this fishery started? Did NC ever get shortchanged because too many recreational fish were harvested up north?

it's not about being shortchanged... it's about the entitlement attitude that only a certain group should have access to a "national" resource wither it be north, south, rec or commercials. as far as traditional fisheries.... spain and the med have thousands of years old history of said fishery....that is a "traditional" fishery..... it is hard for me to fathom that the "traditional new england fishery" could even be considered relevant in the US's short history so much as to exclude other americans from having equal opportunity to the same national resource.

Heli, If we really want to compare the northern rec groups vs. the southern rec groups then maybe we should focus on the one major difference & that is the management & reporting systems implemented on the two different geographic areas and how that might affect & has affected the fishery as a whole? Do you believe the northern method of reporting is effective or even remotely close to accurate? Do you feel is is good for the fisherman or the fish?

[Heli Sports]

it's not about being shortchanged... it's about the entitlement attitude that only a certain group should have access to a "national" resource wither it be north, south, rec or commercials. as far as traditional fisheries.... spain and the med have thousands of years old history of said fishery....that is a "traditional" fishery..... it is hard for me to fathom that the "traditional new england fishery" could even be considered relevant in the US's short history so much as to exclude other americans from having equal opportunity to the same national resource.

Heli, If we really want to compare the northern rec groups vs. the southern rec groups then maybe we should focus on the one major difference & that is the management & reporting systems implemented on the two different geographic areas and how that might affect & has affected the fishery as a whole? Do you believe the northern method of reporting is effective or even remotely close to accurate? Do you feel is is good for the fisherman or the fish?

Regarding enforcement/compliance, I don't see any reason to go off on a tangent here. If you are implying that the Southern zone is more deserving of Angling Category quota because it's easier for NMFS to monitor Bluefin Tuna landings in NC, well that's just absurd!

As far as North vs. South "recreational" ABT fisheries, I never once said the Southern zone (and therefore NC) shouldn't get a fair share of the Angling and Trophy Catetegory quotas. I doubt New England sportsmen care whether the Southern allocation of the Bluefin quota is filled entirely off North Carolina, though I'll bet DELMARVA sportsmen have something to say about that!

My point when this thread started was that the NMFS did a poor job by allowing too many Medium class and Trophy Category tuna to be landed off NC last Spring. And this is an undisputable fact! The New England "for hire" fleet (and sportsmen) rely on access to this resource at least as much as NC charter boats. Getting into a pissing match about entitlement to the recreation quota is pointless. Of course "those guys" from NC are going to feel that they are just as much entitled to a share of the resource, even though landings of Bluefin tuna in any significant quantity, only date back as far as the mid 1980's in that area.

I'm going to continue to stand by my statement that any commercial fishery for Giant ABT in NC should not come at the expense of quota that historically has been filled off of New England, and that the the NC Dec/Jan commercial fishery exists only because the fishery declined up North and by law the United States has to facilitate the harvest of its share of the ICCAT quota or risk losing it to nations that consistently harvest their allocation.

There is really no point in debating this. Untill the entire General Category quota is filled by November, which has not happened in quite some time and likely won't in the near future, NMFS will not have to deal with this issue. But if that did happen, I highly doubt the NMFS would close the General Category before it was entirely filled, in order to save some quota of Giants for a fishery in North Carolina that has only existed since the mid 1990's. However, it is quite likely that in that case they would transfer unused quota from a different user group (such as Seiner quota) in order to continue to allow a couple hundred Giants to be harvested off of North Carolina during December and January.

The North Carolina Winter Giant fishery is certainly extremely important from a scientific and stock assessment stand point. I can't imagine that the NMFS will fail to recognize this so I'm sure this fishery will continue under any scenario. But I have to say that I find the poor quality and low Japan prices of much of the NC commercial production quite alarming. And laughable that many NC tuna fishermen still have not learned how to properly handle tuna for quality. "Those guys" should realize that Giant ABT is a commercial species and NMFS certainly takes quality and price into consideration when allocating the quota.

Of course I don't expect any of "those guys" to agree with any of this. Peace!