The Weak Link,

[seapower]

I have fish both downrigger's and planer rod's (even before they were known as "sniper" rod's). For the most part I like fishing a planer rod better, but I have had a recuring problem that has me thinkng of going back to the traditional way. I have had several time's when fishing in an area where bigeye's and a stray bluefin are mixed in with our target fish. The problem I've had is when a "big" fish hit's the planer rod (with it's braid heavy enough to handle a planer and 100lb leader), trip's the planer, but there simply isn't enough time to take 3 step's back to back the drag down. The usual sound is snap (the leader parting), then soon followed by an "awh chit"! I can't help but think that if the same fish hit a downrigger/planer set-up, with a rod that had normal drag set, that we'd have at least had a chance to actually see those fish. Don't get me wrong I/we have caught some really nice fish with the planer rod set-up, but have lost some even "nicer" one because of it. Any suggestion's??? Frank

[gottaflylee]

Frank, what size planer are you using? Sometimes doping down 1 size will take care of things, I think we dropped down to 4? (will have to look at the size) and ran them off the rod tip and that took care of the problem we had.

[seapower]

Using A #12 or #16 most of the time. Bent butt, 250lb braid, bridle/planer, to 100lb leader. The problem is the drag is so tight to hold the planer, that the weak link is the leader (no give). As you know when a big fast fish hit's, you've got dip in the tip of the rod, then it come's really tight, then it part's. If you are right at the rod, you "may"be able to slacken the drag fast enough. On most day's it's no problem, but when the big boy's show up, ain't so good. Frank

[clt_capt]

Frank - I used to run a 50W and a #12 planer - Had to crank the drag down and still go above strike to keep it on the reel. Upped the reel to an 80 with rebuilt drag and didn't have to crank it down nearly as much - Seemed to help - although I haven't run into any bigeyes or BFTs with it...

[Captain Fred Archer]

I've extensively used and written about both downriggers and planers in my books. And like so many other things in fishing, I truly believe that, unless he's clarevoyant, one has to have spent a good deal of time doing something and doing it right in order to make accurate judgements about them. I've caught a lot of fish on both, but to tell you the truth, I wound up much preferring the downrigger, unless truly high speeds were required - something I've found to rarely be the case when fishing deep, even for my beloved wahoos (and I think Wound Up James has somewhat similar feelings and he's not your ordinary occasional wahoo catcher!)- fish that we caught big numbers and sizes of fishing deep. I am not knocking anyone else for how they choose to fish, but to me and my crews, planers were simply way to much of a hassle to use. They required dedicated and specialized rods, line, leader, plus dedicated reels (and again, line). They pulled like hell and were, to us at least, a pia to re-load after a missed fish or checked bait. And that same drag thing, only on one of those truly monster sized Cabo wahoos, only had to happen one time to earn my emnity.

One of the things that I really liked about trolling deep with downriggers was that I had far more depth options than with the planer and all that I had to do to make a quick and precise depth change was to raise of lower the ball, rather than let out or take in planer line and guess the lure depth. Fact is, in cases of not-too-deep fishing and a bit of adjusting many times I could actually see the downrigger weight on my sonar, so I could put the lure right around the natural bait.

Yet another advantage was the abilitly to thoroughly cover a section of current or area above or around structure like a wreck or rocks, a thermocline, etc. I also really liked them because they allowed us to run lighter rods and reels when the smaller fish were the norm, allowing us to optimize the fun for our customers. No way can you do that with a conventional planer and planer outfit. And that rod in the holder while you crank on and fight the fish might be alright for stuff like giant tunas or big azzed thresher sharks (I've gunnel rod hold fought both and am not ashamed of it), but I always felt that the majority of our charters preferred handling and fighting the smaller species like many tunas, wahoos, dorados, etc. on the lighter gear that we could hook them up on when using downriggers.

For me, there were and are even more advantages when fishing downriggers versus planers. All are covered in my books for those interested. They include raising deep daytime fish to the surface for daytime chunking after getting them up from the deep and into our bar spreads...an absolutely deadly technique that few use and that few of those who do (mostly sharp charter guys) talk about. I'll refrain from boring others, especially since planers seem to have become some sort of Holy Grail on this site and I don't want to wave the red flag at any good folk who love their planers.

Again, no intention to offend anyone...just my personal feelings based on my own experiences. And, hey, if I had to go FAST and deep, well naturally I used the planer. I just didn't find that fast trolling usually mattered much when fishing deep.

[offshore]

Frank how long is your leader? We are running 100ft of 100 on a windon bridal (no sleeve bridals) . 200lb JB hollowcore mainline. 80 Alutecnos. No problems with break offs. Exactly where is the leader breaking? We pretty much use #12 old saltys... Mark

[Captain Rich Adler]

Guys you got me thinking while reading this post so I went back to some sketches I drew while fishing with Wound Up James a couple of years ago. I hope he won't be pissed about me talking about his rigging. There was a 1 oz egg sinker right in front of the hook. There was a trolling sinker about 5 feet in front of the hook. There was a whole lot of wahoo right behind the hook. No planers, no downriggers.

[Captain Rich Adler]

Like these

[Captain Rich Adler]

You know I'm looking at these photos, and yes at least one line was run off the downrigger.

[seapower]

Mark I am using a bent butt 130 class rod, 80 narrow, 250lb PowerPro, 120ft of 100 lb Ande leader. When the BigEye's hit, the leader will break "somewhere" (usually not at a terminal joint)before you have a chance to back the drag off. It doesn't matter if you're using a 50 or an 80 (I use both on 2 different set-up's), the drag needed to hold a #12 or #16 has NO give, when that big fast fish (that usually run's straight away from the boat) hit's. Before you can drop the lever back to the pre-maked spot, the fish win's. It happen's just too fast!
Capt Fred Archer, when I am speaking of using my downrigger, I am using a rail mounted downrigger, with a planer (of whatever size I need to match the depth) with a quick release attached for the hook bait. I have run planer's commercial king fishing and feel very comfortable with them, they catch fish. But the immediate hard run's from the big fish from what I've seen, are just too much for the "sniper" type rig's from what I've experienced. We've caught wahoo up to 68lb and countless yellowfin on them, but the battleship's is what I'm having problem's with. The regular "run of the mill" meat fish haven't been a problem.
I hope I am making my question plain enough. Alot of time's I understand what I'm sayin', but no one else does.
Clt-Capt, you just need to come a few mile's North and get away from those "snake's", to see what I'm talkin' about!!!!
By the way, I don't have this problem with smaller planer's or trolling weight's. The drag doesn't have to nearly as tight. Frank