WAY WAY WAY WAY BACK

[Patudo]

Ahi, ... I've gotta say, I'm not really convinced that marlin perceive any bubble or water disturbance coming off the leader as the head of a lure... Tuna the more you can minimize/remove that leader the better, as several of the guys mentioned already... You fellas over a season target tuna a lot more than we and your fish are under a lot more pressure so it's good to know this leader visibility thing is a real issue for you too.

Now as far as marlin is concerned I really think.. We go to a lot of trouble getting the head of a lure to look like....a head... what with all the reflective tape, highly visible eyes and all... I think the times they overshoot and hit a lure ahead of the hooks or even the head, that's more likely to be that they expect the lure to dart ahead when they come for it like a baitfish would, compensate for that by giving it a little extra lead, but the lure keeps course at 8 knots or whatever your trolling speed is and the fish ends up hitting the leader. Also could be the fish's nose is two feet or more long and when they come for the lure some part of that nose comes in contact with the leader ahead of the fish. I once heard Jerry Dunaway say "I don't know how blue marlin feed themselves in the wild, they can make such a mess of trying to eat a lure." or words to that effect ... Yeah, kinda, but I think sometimes part of the reason why they seem so awkward sometimes when they're on a lure is that the lure doesn't behave as they expect their live prey to do. That's just what I think anyway. What I don't understand though is how one fish can mess around with a lure but the next fish you raise just annihilates the lure or the lure just disappears and it's big hole bent pole. The guys that run video cameras in the spread report that a lot of fish come in deep below the spread and check the lures out before either disappearing or coming up to one of the lures and trying to eat. Maybe, the fish that slurps the lure down has studied the lure for a while, tuned into its swimming pattern and hit when the lure gives it the easiest target. I dunno.

[Capt. Brian Daley]

Hey scrum its all clean fun as for the swivels I have used small 2-3 inch
squid skirts to cover the snaps but have had a lot of cutoffs lost lures started
using speader bars in 82 five at a time running 7 lures around them plus planners under them for big eye I love the art of trolling and every bodys
input so come back scrum we want to hear more !!!

[ancient mariner]

Hi:
Up in the Noreast, cutoffs are kind of rare. Bluefish on occasion eat the 4,3/4 inch squid,cutting you off.

Don't know where you fish, so you could enlighten us on using a squid or somesuch, if at used them at all.

I STILL LOVE that TAPE over the swivel idea. I gotta try that one.

Off Aussie land, depending where you fish, cutoffs can be brutal. It seems everything down under has a big set of choppers.

Sitting up in the tower, Ive seen fish after fish (Tuna) come across the spread, down deep. I seem to think there interested but no overly active.
If the spread turns them on, they'll come busting up from below and cream your rigs, turning to the opposite side they came in on.
If they see something the don't like, they'll turn off and buzz off to the outside of the spread. Why they do that, I don't know. I've seen it to many times in different places to make it a coincidence , even for me to ignore.
Sometimes if I take a sharp turn to the same side as the fish left, I'll be able to get them back( YFT). If I'm really lucky, I'll get my pit boss(George) to grab a rod out of the holder and point the rod tip o/side and have them jig the plastic lure. I make that rod look like a broom and use it in a floor sweeping motion. Ah well,SWMBO taught me well. This works for me if I can get the rod behind the transome and have that jigging motion NEXT to the white water from the prop. Two or more lures doing this makes it even better.
SUPPOSITION on my part. I think that all that white water, speed change, engine noise change, sea clutter change makes those YFT come back for a second look. The jigging motion, then appears that the lures are trying to hide in that white water, AS THEY DART in and out of it.
AS for BFT, since they act differently when schooled and on the attack,
I try to have someone ready with a mettle jig on a jigging stick. I try to tell the mate before we leave the dock.
What I try to do is HOLLER at the mate from the tower and he gets the jigging stick ready .
I'll slow down to 2+ knots, and he'll go to the inside of a turn and cast that jig as far foreward as he can, letting the line peel off as the jig settles. When the jig is even with the transome, he'll lock up the reel and slow jig for 5-8 jigs, then a medium cranking speed. Repeat as needed.
HINT...HINT...HINT... When that 1st deep BFT grabs the jig, GET another rig ready(meat fishing only). Now crank the 1st one close and repeat with the 2nd jig stick. HINT...HINT...HINT...IF YOU KEEP THE BOAT IN A SLIGHT TURN AT 2 KNOTS you can KEEP the whole BFT school under the boat and UNDER one of the hooked BFT. That way, the comm. guys can kill the whole
school if they want to. This method works on fish up to(ABOUT) 125 pounds.
Bigger than that, the jig gets to be to heavy.
I'm probably telling things you all already know. I'll close out now and hope A can get another idea or two from you guys.
WACKM N STACKM
Joseph B...aka...Ancient Mariner

[jgray]

Anyone think the WWWB bait seems like the wounded or struggling fish from the spread over and it's the last thing out there? Kinda like a spreader bar simulating a small school with a trailing hook bait being the wounded fish. Or maybe a spread is too large to have this effect... Any fish out there that can type?

[Capt. Brian Daley]

Thats what its job is the weakist link in the school gets hit first I can tell you
how many times I pull on the line just out side or under a spreader bar
or daisey chain and that lure gets it wack ripped right out of my hands and
when I twist of line for a drop back goes in a five gallon bucket of water I
have never had a problem a tangle just as some one in the chair and your
pulling off line w/the mack on the other end coming up from the depts and mr
giant hits ping!!! count your fingers there still vibrating

[AhiSlayer]

Aloha! Patudo

The smoke trail thing infront the lure is important for tuna in my fishery. This is kinda hard to say in public but here goes

There are days we see a football feild of exploding tuna. They range in size from 30# to 100#ers mixed schools.

We troll through them on Monday and they will not hit a lure. Come back on Tuesday and they will eat any junkie lure you pull through.

On Monday,,,,,I can go way down to 80 test trolling leader and get one or two fish but the sharks usually take um,,,this option gets expensive and is time consumming to cut the sharks off,,loose hooks ect,,,,,Option two is to net some bait and chum the fish to the boat then catch them commercial style with handlines on pipes that swivel in the rod holders- not sportfishing but very effective,,,Option three is to cast a diamond jig like A>M. this works but for some reason I loose 50% of the fish over 50#s that hit the jig - they fall offthe hook

The best option I found is to let the line way way way back....I'm talking 300 yard to 450 yards. This option allows me to,,,,not change lures,,,,the line is soaked so less bubble trail off the line, the lure still pops cuz I can see it, barely. Erick's beauties are the best lure for this wacky technique. I still have good stuff in play for blue marlin. The techniqu is so effective I am shocked when I make a pass and it doesn't catch a fish. When the WTFB lure is in play I am driving the boat for that lure mostly. I drag it right through the middle of the pile. since the boat is a couple hundred yards from the pile ,,,,the other lures are more likely to get hit by a big blue or big ono prowling the edge of the pile for stragglers. my expierence is that smaller blues will be within 100 yards of the pile but larger blues are two to three hundred yards behind the pile.

The problems start when a big blue attacks a lure close to the boat just at the time when the wtfb lure is over the pile. If I stop the boat or slow too much the wtfb lure gets sharked or tunad then sharked

it's not a perfect system, May be considdered lazy by some, but it works out pretty good on most days, lol

I would like to fish on a boat with underwater cameras towed from both corners. To me,,, seeing a fish swim underwater like that is allmost as good as catching. beautiful- just beautiful. i agree with your observation about marlin bites, sounds good anyway
yf
ahi

[TommyTuna]

Food for thought ( honest to Pete): is it possible the WWWB thing is the best Tuna producer for some because their spread behind the boat is a kalidiscope of shit that would scare off Frankenstein's mother?
My favorite commercial of all time is the clown freshwater fishing in the Jon boat who pulls out a contraption about 2 feet long with spinners, shirts, etc. and says--- " I think I'll try this".
And to finish my Andy Roony schpeel regading swivels: "why is some people use 50 pund tackle and put on a 350 lb swivel?

Yep, us northerners are so stupid we can only catch when we have a bait 300 yards behind the boat - yep, that must be it.

[Glenn W]

Now don't you start getting your panties all in a knot Tom--- The Dmz is definatly not the border for god aweful looking spreads nor does it have a lock on the wwwb thing. FWIW, I saw the merits of pulling a bait behind the spread for BFT this year out of Va Beach. Had one day in which every BFT bite came on that WWB thing-- too much to be a coincidence. I don't see any need or advantage to the WWB thing in the Carolina's. Regarding the kalidiscope of shit thing--- I still contend alot of ya'll pull some ugly stuff without regards to trying to match ( or even compliment) what else is in your spread. I guess their are two theories: Those that try to emulate a school (or group) of similar baitfish, closely resembling the size and color of local baitfish; and the theory to pull evey combination under the rainbow with the hopes that the gamefish will ignore the unattractive ( albeit unknown to the angler/crew on a given day) and chew on what turns them on on a given day.
BTW, have I ever told you that you have an ugly trailer boat

[Glenn W]

For those that don't know, I have the same boat as TT, except mine is the ugly sister version.

[Libation]

Not to step on toes, but... I have never been a fan of the GM or the WWB.

After reading this thread, I ran a Merrit bird w/ a soft GM between my long riggers (illander on horses).Going back to Box's original idea of another teaser to stir things up. Well a nice blue came in the spread, whacked the left short and got spoon fed the horse on the clip. Was it the extra teaser? Was it just my time? Can't say but it made for a great day! In the pm I switched that rod over to a Splash Bar covered in GMs, and picked up a respectable YFT.
I now (weather permitting) will be playing other presentations in that spot.
Thanks for all the input gents, this yank has learned a thing or two.