Trolling Questions

[sportfish_1]

I was looking back through the previous threads and happened to run across one from May of 2005 where the members were asking Capt. Brian questions about, well about everything. I read this thread and noticed at times questions were asked about where to run the baits, short right, left long etc... When I had my boat in OCMD I would troll 6 lines, 4 off the riggers and two flat lines off the transom. I would pull 2 ceder plug chains off the flat lines right in the wash and run naked ballys and skirted ballys off the riggers about in the 3 and 4 wake. I would sometimes run a squid bar off the short rigger and pulled it at different distances from the boat, but never as close as I see you all run them on the videos. I did this because I thought that was the way to do it. I did not have any special pattern to my spread, I just put it out and hoped for the best. I didn't want to ask anybody at the marina how to do it because I didn't want to look like an amateur. Well those days are gone, I'm not afraid to ask questions anymore. This site has changed my thoughts on that. I see where even the professionals ask questions and share their opinions with all the members. My hook up rate when fishing was not all that great when trolling.

1. My question is what thoughts are behind trolling a specific bait in a specific location ?

2. What dictates the distance behind the boat you pull a specific bait and at what speed ?

3. Do you find that trolling in clean, clear water is better than trolling in dirty water and does this change with the species that you are targeting ?

4. When trolling do you look for the temp. break and fish the inside the break (warm) over the break, or just outside the break ? or all ?

I know that there are a lot of answers to the questions that I have here and each question will have different opinions from each member. I am looking for the basics, something to get me started in the right direction.

Thanks
Danny

[WAHOONBOX]

QUOTE SPORTFISH1 HERE:
1. My question is what thoughts are behind trolling a specific bait in a specific location ?

THIS QUESTION IS EASY FOR ME DANNY....FOR WE MATCH THE HATCH.....95% OF THE TIME OUR BAITS MATCH......SOMETIMES THE COLR WILL VARY ...BUT MOST BAITS ARE THE SAME


7-11 SEAWITHCES/MED BALLYHOO......AND THE ODD BALL WILL PROBABLY BE A NAKED BALLYHOO...GUACOMOLE OR SPLIT BILL

NOW WHEN WE TARGET MAHI.....THE SPREAD GETS EVEN SIMPLER

[bigeasy]

Each species causes some variation. But general rules are #1 rig baits so they swim and not spin #2 troll any variation such as debris, temp breaks(both sides), or color changes, or underwater structure. Avoid the great "sameness"-- vast stetches with little or no changes #3 change baits or speed if nothing is happening #4 remember to respect others trolling in the same area. Lines may be far behind a boat. Pass well astern- quarter a mile or so. #5 don't jump on a weedline immediatly in front of another boat- join the line on the opposite side or go the opposite direction. Keep fishing and successful patterns will emerge.

[ancient mariner]

HI:
BOX IS THE TRU GURU ON MEAT. HE KNOWS. Listen to him. I sit at the feet of the MEAT PRO andlearn.
If you want YFT, put your lures next to the chine wake. I found that plastic run in these positions will attract more YFT. I think thats what gets them into your boat(chine wake that is).
I run colors according to the time of day, o/cast or not, surface condition, temps when I can get them.
Since I don't know what kind of boat you run od what engine(s), I can olny say that in plastic, get your boat up on plane WHERE the WHITE WATER from your prop is bashing and trashing your transome. When that white water starts to move AWAY from the transome, SLOW down, your going too fast. 6-8 knots is a starting ballpark.
U now have standing wake wave behind your boat. Put your Tuna LURE in eth MIDDLE of each standing wake wave. Thats where they want to eat them.
I give more info on my site .
I keep my Tuna lures between 6-9 inches EXCEPT, when I tweek a "GM" type lure. Then I go to 12 inches..
Feathers seem to work better than plastic down south , BUT up north, plastics rule.
THREE(3) t"ZER setups in front of each lure, really enhances your spread. In this case, MORE IS BETTER WHEN POSITIONED CORRECTLY.
If u want specific info about your spread ,b-mail me and gice me more info. I'll design a spread just for your boat.
Cedar Killers up close to teh transome and in the 2nd wake wave.
Feathers with plastic heads in the 2nd/3rd wake wave.
Squid bars in between and one wave further back.
BIRDS...BIRDS...BIRDS in front of 3 t'zers and 9/12 inch lures off the riggers AND back where propwash turns champagne.
Thats a start.
Hope I've helped
WACKM N STACKM
Joseph B...aka...Ancient Mariner

[Chilli]

. My question is what thoughts are behind trolling a specific bait in a specific location ?

The baits that you are using, cedars and witchs are all low profile baits... Nothing wrong with in itself... The BOX likes to pull nothing but witch's... The thing they do diffenently from you is they pull a LOT of witchs... Up to three times as many as you do. They bulk up on a lot of smaller baits to draw bites. Fishing with a six rod spread, you may consider pulling some higher profile baits such as daisy chains or spreader bars. Even one will increase your visual presentation to the fish quite a bit. You then want to stack your sea witch close to the bar or daisy chain to give it a "trailing" effect. Commonly the lone baits next to the high profile baits will get piled on... Remeber Create the illusion of a lot of bait and add in weak baits that will set the bite off. Once they start chewin' the compatiton will build and you'll experience more mulitple hook ups.

2. What dictates the distance behind the boat you pull a specific bait and at what speed ?

Your boat dictates the distance and speed at which you fish. All boats are different. Flat line baits are fished right where your prop wash and wake begin to break up the shorts will be in the clear and so will the longs. Pay attention to the wake you boat creates and play around a bit to find the magic positioning and speed that makes your wake "cleanest".

3. Do you find that trolling in clean, clear water is better than trolling in dirty water and does this change with the species that you are targeting ?

I assume that by clean and dirty water you are referring to your wake... If so same answer as above. I


4. When trolling do you look for the temp. break and fish the inside the break (warm) over the break, or just outside the break ? or all ?

The funny thing about fish is that they have tails. They move around and things change from day today. A temp break is a creature that needs to be thouroughly explored. Even a slight deviation in trolling direction or speed can be the thing that sets the bite off. Keep you eyes on the sonar and watch the spread for signs of fish when investigating a break. A pattern will soon show itself.


You are already on the right track.. The most important thing to do is to communicate with folks. Ask questions. Its an information game. The more you have, the more success you are likely to find. Stop by the boat if your in OC. I certainly wouldn't mind talking to ya and showing how we do it. Good luck this season.

[Sterling]

For an inshore troll I might be all small plastics. In the Canyon I like to run baits/plastics of different sizes.

In doing so, I believe in having larger baits in close and smaller farther back. The logic is that while a predator may elect to pass a smaller bait to hit a big one...a bigger bait could deter a fish from pulling in front of it, to hit something else. When I say bigger here, I'm factoring in the noise/action of it as well. The one exception to this is when I run a bird WWWFB. If it's far enough back I think it's not a factor.

As example. I wouldn't drop a 15" Compleat Masher off the long rigger and have a naked bally 10' in front of it.

Close to the boat it's Bait Ball and Big (This could be teasers, pins, spreaders...I keep the hooks behind the teasers) then Medium then Small is my canyon logic. I typically run 7 or 8 lines, Med Center, then Flat, Short Rigger and Long Rigger on each side. The 8th line is WWWWFB typically and often a bird/skirted bally or GM. This is my logic, which stems from some experience and some reading. I'm not sure it qualifies as proven fact so take it for what it's worth.

[sportfish_1]

. My question is what thoughts are behind trolling a specific bait in a specific location ?

The baits that you are using, cedars and witchs are all low profile baits... Nothing wrong with in itself... The BOX likes to pull nothing but witch's... The thing they do diffenently from you is they pull a LOT of witchs... Up to three times as many as you do. They bulk up on a lot of smaller baits to draw bites. Fishing with a six rod spread, you may consider pulling some higher profile baits such as daisy chains or spreader bars. Even one will increase your visual presentation to the fish quite a bit. You then want to stack your sea witch close to the bar or daisy chain to give it a "trailing" effect. Commonly the lone baits next to the high profile baits will get piled on... Remeber Create the illusion of a lot of bait and add in weak baits that will set the bite off. Once they start chewin' the compatiton will build and you'll experience more mulitple hook ups.

2. What dictates the distance behind the boat you pull a specific bait and at what speed ?

Your boat dictates the distance and speed at which you fish. All boats are different. Flat line baits are fished right where your prop wash and wake begin to break up the shorts will be in the clear and so will the longs. Pay attention to the wake you boat creates and play around a bit to find the magic positioning and speed that makes your wake "cleanest".

3. Do you find that trolling in clean, clear water is better than trolling in dirty water and does this change with the species that you are targeting ?

I assume that by clean and dirty water you are referring to your wake... If so same answer as above. I


4. When trolling do you look for the temp. break and fish the inside the break (warm) over the break, or just outside the break ? or all ?

The funny thing about fish is that they have tails. They move around and things change from day today. A temp break is a creature that needs to be thouroughly explored. Even a slight deviation in trolling direction or speed can be the thing that sets the bite off. Keep you eyes on the sonar and watch the spread for signs of fish when investigating a break. A pattern will soon show itself.


You are already on the right track.. The most important thing to do is to communicate with folks. Ask questions. Its an information game. The more you have, the more success you are likely to find. Stop by the boat if your in OC. I certainly wouldn't mind talking to ya and showing how we do it. Good luck this season.

Where do you dock your boat in OC ?

[Tuna Tyme]

This is a great thread for this or any time of year. Things are a little differant on my rig but like it was said earlier every boat is differant. The differance in my boat is the distance between the engines. I was running a Trophy and they were close together and now I run a Cat and they are far apart. All this did was make the white water wider and longer behind the boat so I had to change everything up, untill I found the sweet spot. And once you get that spot on your boat stay with it. When the wind lets me I run 9 rods from my 26' boat. 5 are meat, naked,swimming,skipping,split bill,guacimole, with a witch you name it, one bar, one bird with Islander, greenie, aussie with meat 15' to 18' behing the bird,a chain of any kind and a blue and white Islander with meat. I like to keep the bar close off a flat line and put a skipping naked Hoo 10' behind it from the inside rigger. I also run a downrigger with a ball and release and I send it DEEP. And when things are slow mess with the colors, I have blue and white,black and red, Pink,Green.

As far as a pattern its hard for me to see the waves that come of my Cat. I don't know if it the tunnel with the water passing through my boat or what it is but its hard to see. I have a RPM that I run while in OC and I use Knots off Hatteras. You dont have current of MD like you have in NC and when you change course you rpm's will be the same but you are know going 10 nkots instead of 6. I try to use the Diamond, triangle pattern with my lures, I don't know what this does but they like it.

All you need to do is find a pattern and speed for your boat and STAY WITH IT. When you start catching fish look at what you are doing and write it down and after a while you will see what you are going right and also wrong. And when they have lock jaw dont go over board and change everything in the spread. Just a few to keep you feeling like you doing something to change you luck.

As far as Temp breaks I fish them hard. When you see a break in the distance look at the temp. Go past it a ways to see whats going on say a quarter mile on both side of the break. Then set up and troll into it, across it ,up it, down it the hot side, the cold side, look at the sounder for fish and the thermocline. And after a while if you dont get a hit then start back up and go the where you where going, or fish it a while you never know. What I hate is when Im Doing this and I see Boats pass me and I think MAN they know where the fish are so I get the bearing and plot them out to see where they are going. And this little voice says go after them they know what they are doing. I know that I have left more fish to find fish doing this then I would like to admit. But thats only 1 of my down falls that keep me from catching more fish. I hope this helps you out.

And one more thing ASK QUESTION here, these people have helped and taught me so much more then people at the dock, atleast the people at the dock where I go.

Dave B

[sportfish_1]

Thanks guys for the info, please keep it coming. As for the boat I fished the spread mentioned above it was a 25' Grady White Sailfish Dolphin.

I no longer have that boat and will be buying another. My new boat will either be 1 of the following 3.

28 Carolina Classic
28 Albemarle Express
30 Blackwatch

I would opt for diesels in the boat I choose. This may give you an idea of what spread I should use.

Thanks

[Chilli]

With the new boats you are looking at you will see why you can run the baits closer to the transome... The water in your wake will be noticably cleaner.

The boat is over at sunset, "Incommunicado"... Stop by and introduce yourself.