Trolling Lures

[Barefootin]

I like to keep things simple when trolling offshore. Target trolling species are limited to Tuna, Dolphin, Wahoo & Kings in this area. I usually put out a 2.5 or 4oz tapered jet head and the same in a round jet head depending on the conditions. I like lead bullet heads for high speed stuff.
Can anyone suggest one or two other lures to add to my spread? I only run 4 lines at best to keep me in action when the Cobia and Snapper bite is off.
Doork nobs, slant head or cupped head ?
Thanks,

Matt

[WAHOONBOX]

STAND BY DUDE....CAUSE I THINK YOU ARE ABOUT TO BE SWAMPED WITH PICTURES......

[jwalker]

SPREADER BARS DAISY CHAINS SPREADER BARS DAISY CHAINS SPREADER BARS DAISY CHAINS SPREADER BARS DAISY CHAINS SPREADER BARS DAISY CHAINS.....

You really really need to add 1-2 spreader bars and a chain or two into your spread if your only running 4 lines and want to maximize your chances of landing more meat.....

one spreader bar, one chain and 2 lures would work well and why not put a shotgun right down the middle and run a 5 rod spread? You have a Hydra Sport, I believe there are 4 rod holders in the leaning post? stick your shotgun right there...

[GALAZIO]

JOHNNY & BOX... Let's see a diagram showing what gets pulled where & how far back. It might help me as well. Thanks

[Barefootin]

Johnny,
Would you reccomend the Pakula Uzi; I would like something that all fish might hit rather than a "Tuna" chain.
Thanks,
Matt

[WAHOONBOX]

Johnny,
Would you reccomend the Pakula Uzi; I would like something that all fish might hit rather than a "Tuna" chain.
Thanks,
Matt

LET ME START WITH THE UZI............THE UZI ON THE SHORT RIGGERS......PERSONALLY I HAVE SWAM THE UZI WITH A MED BALLYUHOO ON THE SHORT RIGGERS AND THE RESULTS WERE ....QUITE REMARKABLE.....

YES I SAID REMARKABLE.....THE UZI TRACKS AND DOES A "MINI-DART" MANUVER THAT IS EXCITING TO WATCH!

NOW YOU ASK WHY HAVE I NEVER MENTIONED THE PAKULA UZI IN MY STORIES OR WHY IT IS NOT A REGULAR IN MY SPREAD......I'LL TELL YOU

IT PULLS ON MONO SUPERB AND I JUST COULDN'T AFFPORD THE WAHOO CUT-OFFS....PLAIN AND SIMPLE! THE UZI IS A BIT PRICEY FOR A CHARTER BOAT OPERATION AND WE ALLL NOW HOW I LOVE DA WITCHES....BUT IF THE WALLET IS THERE FOR MEAT FISHING ......THE UZI IS AWESOME!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I AM GOING TO SPEAK ON THE NEXT PHRASE IN RED ABOVE AND THIS IS JUST AN OPINION


ANY LURE....I REPEAT ANY LURE , SQUID, CHAIN , BAR, LARGE OR SMALL ....IS PRONE TO BE ATTACKED BY ANY FISH IN THE OCEAN REGARDLESS OF SIZE


I HAVE BEEN SKIPPING A 8 LB KINGFISH IN THE LEFT SHORT ONLY TO HAVE IT MAULED BY A PECKERHEAD PEANUT MAHI......HE IS FEARLESS AND WILL EAT ON HIS MOTHER IF HE GETS THE CHANCE!


A FISH ISN'T SITTING THERE THINKING....OH NO! I DOUN'T EAT A SQUID CHAIN....OR NO WAY!!!! I WILL NOT EAT A CEDAR PLUG.........

THEY DON'T THINK....THEY REACT.....IF YOU PRESENT ANY LURE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH TO A PREDATOR AT THE RIGHT TIME IT IS LIGHTS OUT DOWN THE PIPE! I FOUND THESE TWO LINKS: THEY MAY HELP.http://www.alltackle.com/wahoo_tackle_kit.htm

AND http://www.meltontackle.com/catalog/category.asp?category_id=344


THEN I FOUND THIS NEXT LINK AND FOR THE FIRST TIME....I SEE SOME INFO ON "HOW-TO-PULL A BIRD" LSITED....WHICH STATES: ....BIRD IS 15-20 FT IN FRONT OF YOUR LURE .......THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE SEEN THIS IN PRINT AND I TIP MY RIGGERS TO THIS COMMENT ON THIS !!!!! I HAVE USED THE DISTANCE OF 18 FT FOR MANY YEARS IN THIS SITUATION
http://www.meltontackle.com/catalog/Pro-Soft-Lures.html

[Captain Fred Archer]

Sorry, but I have to beg to differ. Now, maybe I've trolled birds more and longer than most and so have found out some things the hard way. And the hardest of the hard ways for me is to get bit off by a wahoo that I should have caught if I had done things one way instead of another. I hate losing any fish, but wahoo have a special hold on me and always have for some reason. And a wahoo bite on a bird is an unmitigated disaster!

Couple things that hopefully will explain where I'm coming from. First, I fished in waters where wahoo are year-round residents. You can and do run into them at any time of year down there...there is no "season". Too, it was where both of the all tackle world records came from, both fish well, to way over 150#, so a world record fish was a constant possibility and was, in fact, the only record that I ever cared about. We caught a few fish over a buck every year, up to 130#. Bottom line is, I took no chances whatsoever with anything that I knew could cost me a record fish, and that included where I ran my birds.

'Nother thing when it comes to "time with birds". Those who read my books, magazine articles and posts know that I am the ultimate multiple lure head. I absolutely will not run a single surface lure without a bird teaser in front of it, EVER, no matter what. I have no idea how many hours of "bird time" that was, but let me assure you, it was a helluva lot!

My history with birds began many years ago down in Key West fishing with outdoor writer Don Mann. We fished Richard Somebody or other's center console, "Hawaiian Tropic" one day and Don showed me a new kind of lure/teaser that Peter Foley of Boone Baits had made based on something that the Japanese fishermen used. He called it "a bird" and to someone who had never seen one, it was one funny looking little critter. (Based on everything that I have ever learned, Peter was the first person to introduce birds in the U.S. and if he wasn't, he was right there at the top and deserves a lot of credit.)

I thought it was really silly looking rigged a couple of feet in front of a marlin lure and I really cracked up when I saw it do its thing in the water. But Don told me that Peter had one two blue marlin tournaments back-to-back using this very same bird (there were only two prototypes in existence then) just weeks before, and that they were the only marlin caught in those tournaments. That got me watching the bird and taking it more seriously. Ten minutes into trolling it we had a blue marlin run completely across the spread, from one side to the other and nail the lure behind the bird. That began my love affair with birds.

A while later, Frank Johnson of Moldcraft came out with his Soft Birds and I have never stopped using it as my main teaser since. I settled on the smallest one and have never quit using it. That started decades ago.

Okay, hopefully the above explains why and how I have developed very strong feelings about birds and how they should be run. Those feelings are based on one thing, experience, a lot of it. One of my very first, and almost only rule about running birds is to run them no more than two or three feet in front of whatever is chasing it. If you put it out much more than that, you are creating a "two lure" situation, instead of one of a smaller predator chasing and just about to catch the fleeing bird that turns fish prey drive and competitive instincts on full blast. The absolute inevitable result will be fish hitting the bird instead of the lure and if that fish happens to be a wahoo, king, big sierra, or other toothy critter, he can and will bite through the mono leader and you will miss the fish and lose your bird and lure to boot.

I could name, but won't, some pretty famous fishermen who didn't like birds "because the bird got bit instead of the lure and lots of times they got bit off." The common thread for all of them was that they rigged their birds a long ways out in front of the lure, just like I did when I started out. Those who followed my advice and ran their birds close to the lures had the same experience as I did, zero bird hits and bite offs.

Think of a spreaderbar for a sec. The chasebait is rigged to run right behind and close to the bait pod of teasers. I guarantee you that if you run that chasebait twenty feet behind the bar, it will no longer be visually associated with the bar and there will be many times that it will get bit, but there will also be many times when the teasers are going to get bit too, just like a bird rigged far ahead of a lure will.

Ain't lookin' for a wrassling match here...just passing on what I have learned and including the amount of time and experience that went into why I think the way that I do.

More bird advice coming soon, but right here is the single most important aspect of getting the most out of them.

[roughriderjosh]

First, I have some Pakula Uzi's but have never ran them before. Interesting to here what others are saying.

Capt Fred, as far as the bird thing goes I am a firm believer as well. From my experience people either use them religiously or cant stand the things. I always want them in my spread and others think im nuts. Ive always wondered about the distance that other people trail the lures behind. Ive actually never had a problem with the bird being hit instead of the lure or a cut off although I have caught more dolphin and sailfish on lure/bird set up than wahoos and probably have not drug them the extent of what yall have. I run my lure about 10 feet behind my boone bird. Interesting stuff on that close in business. Never heard of em in near that close. What your saying makes lots of sense I just may have to learn the hard way. Thanks for the input.

[jwalker]

The truth is birds can be deadly in the Northeast and I'm sure the entire eastern seaboard and the gulf but on the west coast?????????????????

So, So, for all the decent tuna fishing in Southern Cal it doesn't even come close to the TROLL fishing on the east coast on most days if you are in the right water.

Back east with a full spread you can expect to troll up 6-12 nice yellowfin, 4-12 Dorado, 1/2 dozen Albacore and hopefully a Wahoo, White Marlin and if a great day a Blue will show his face...
And if targeting Bluefin when things are solid you may get a shot at 1-6 decent Bluefin Tuna

In So. Cal the average days on the water to get one Striped Marlin bite is 12 days.. And to get a decent tuna day you normally run 60-100 miles to get 1-6 fish..
Not sure if it's the big difference in water depth or just technique in targeting them but very few boats use spreader bars, daisy chains and birds.

I personally run my birds between 2'-6' in front of my trolling lures and have decent success, not sure what running them 15'-20' in front does to make that more enticing? Would try it if someone can show me why but I like them closer for a couple reasons:

Easier to manage leader/line, when I get to bird I basically have fish in complete control and can usually leader and stick him solo without help
I can see my trolling lure better in rough seas, the bird let's you know where your lure is and it's easier to pick up and make sure it has not picked up weed and is still running nice.
I think the bird will bring the predator to the area, then see the lure and hopefully slam it.

Birds/Teasers are great, but like all lures work the best when you are fishing where the fish are

[Barefootin]

Ok, Melton's is sending me a "Dirty Bird" and a few other birdies. I plan to head out 50+ miles Wed. and hopefully find some clean water away from the SKA National Championship event / anglers being held in town this week. These guys may have to run off Venice to catch the big Kings.
One Door Knob, One Stretch 25, a King lure with cigar minnow and a 2.5oz jet head with squid strip to start. Of course a 3oz jig at the ready
I was overtaken by a 35' + CC with what looked like quad 250 Verados a few days ago offshore. I was running 26mph, they must have been running 70+. Not used to seeing others offshore in this area. These unlimited guys are nuts
A few vendors to check out at the marina.
Great info from all,
Thanks,
Matt