DRAG KING

[TommyTuna]

u guys using 45# drag standup are better than me - i can't take more than 30-35# without worrying about getting yanked. I don't even like that much drag!

[WAHOONBOX]

It's all opinion. And it's all good. We learn from other's opinions. And sometimes learn that our opinions are wrong. If it makes us better fishermen and fisherwomen, it's moving in the right direction. I know I have a couple of rigging questions I'd like to get an answer to. I NEED some opinions.

Maybe we can get a mix of reactions from both the 130 'winch' crowd and the 50/70/80 standup guys. Hey, Dennis Braid will be in town the 8th. Think we could get a discussion going between Marty and Dennis? That sounds like it would make for an interesting pow wow I'd like to be there for that one.

JB

DENNIS IS A WORLD CLASS PRO...MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT......

NO NEED TO BANG HEADS ON THAT ONE

BUT ALSO MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT THIS.....YOU SIT IN A FIGHTING HAIR AND PUMP...I PROMISE YOU YOU WILL BE LESS THAN 50-50 ON MEATNBOX

[Deep C]

I have always been a strong advocate of light drag... Yes Box even on the giants... I'm thoroughly convinced that a heavy drag will get fish to switch gears on you. Perfect case would be a monster blue we had a few years ago on a 130. 17lbs at our "bite" position 32 at the strike button. We had 45 and 55 marked above the button.
We bowed up the beast at the 17 and it started the run. Angler got in the chair and pushed it to the 32... The fish felt it and started rocking. We had the pit cleared in record time and were comming back hard. When the fish got to half spool I had turned the boat and was running right at him. Still not slowing down the angler looked at me... This guy was a complete hard head and I knew what he was going to do. He threw it all the way up to no mans land past the 55 mark!
That fish felt that and really hit the after burners. That day was the first and only time I ever saw the knot on a 130. This was compounded by me running at 22 knots and 70+ pounds of drag. Eventually we pulled the hook.
I have seen it on other fish. Heavy drag just pisses them off. If you have a fish 5 X the breaking strength of your string they hold the cards. Lots of drag wont slow em and you risk just busting them off.
My favorite giant setting was 22 lbs on the 80ws and 32 on the 130's we used to mud hole fish with. I think the light drag let them sprint and burn them selves out rather than instilling panic and enabling them to drop a gear, slow down and just out muscle whats pulling on it.
When you get to the circling or up and down part of the game then run it up on them but not until they're pretty well spent...

[frankypettolina]

I am not the diligent reader that I should be sometimes, but here is something that I think is missing. Sorry if it was already listed.

Once you scale a drag (especially on Penn Internationals) you still need to go back and check it every so often throughout the day. Temperature, lack of use, over use etc can lead to changes throughout the day. You don't need to break the scale out every time, but when you are using the scale get a feel of it by hand. Then you can make sure things are still close while you are fishing.

I have 20, 30, and 40 pounds labled on white electrical tape on my reels for bluefining this year. There is still plenty of room past 40. I bottomed out my 50 pound scale, and line was barely inching off.

My GBFT experience is very limited. I have been 5 times this year and had 2 bites (double header)and caught one. The one I caught cored at 258. With the drag resting between the 30 and 40 pound marks on the reel, it took just over 40 minutes bite to gaff. The other one that bit at the same time was lost do to some crazy sea monster with sharp dentures deciding my Pink eye was tasty as it slid up the leader. That being said, the fish was being fought with the same drag as the other one and similar progress was being made. The one we caught hit a closer bait, and we concentrated on it.

Observations. The fish were fought from swivel rod holders on 12/0 Fin-nors (old school that have been in my family since the 70's) On Sea Isle custom rods of similar vintage. The leaders were 30 feet 180 flour, line on the reels was 130 suffix connected together with 340 Spro windon swivels and chafe gear. The only time the rods were moved was at the bite, and twice when the fish switched sides. The other fellow working with me that day knew when to wind, and when to wait. We allowed the motion of the waves and the boat in conjunction with the rod to lift, as well as keeping an eye on the upward trend of fishes circling patterns. No need to pump.

As far as an earlier blue marlin question. I have caught well over 100 Blue Marlins in Venezuela (as mate, not angler) A majority of those fish were taken on TLD 30's with 100 pound leader and 7 to 9 pounds of drag. The problem with catching the blue marlin on the 50 was not the 15 pounds of drag, it was the 100 pound leader. Catching tunas on a 50 with 100 pound leader is fine, if the blue marlin bite was incidental during a tuna bite, no foul. If it was the "big bait" and it was rigged on 100 pound flouro, you should think of scaling up a bit. Surprisingly, we chafed off more blue marlins while fighting with 220 jinkai on the 50s than with 100 pound on the 30s. NOW, on my big baits (targetting blue marlin)I never have less than 300 pound leader (in a kill tourney make that 500) and I never have it on anyting less than an 80 with a minimum of 24 pounds of drag and room to go to 40 or more(kill tournament) Release tourney/fun fishing a 50 with 300 pound leader and 15 to 20 pounds of drag is fine.

Hope this helps, or at least spurs some discussion

[Deep C]

Just a side note to what I said above... The biggest blue I have caught in the last three years was one about 800 on a tld 25 with about 7 lbs of drag. That fish was one of a double. The other was a bout 500. The big fish was taken in about 10-12 minutes. The other fish was on an 80. As I was concentrating on the slob I didn't notice when the passenger pushed her up to about 30lbs which sent that fish into a spool dumping run that took over an hour just to get back on the reel. A lot has to do with the individual fish of couse but I still believe light is better.

[Carson Mac]

To answer Franky's sort of question. When we hooked the BM, it was during tuna fishing. It was unexpected but I just wondered if I could do anything next time to improve my chances. Is their anything you guys can point to that you think helped you bring those bigger fish in on light tackle. I realize every fish is different but I don't ever want to feel like I lost a fish by not being prepared. 0 for 7 last year on billfish should tell you how bad i want to improve.

Cmac

[Turkey Feeder]

I am talking BFT fishing here from out boards..............................................................

Last year I fished for BFT with 3 Tiagra 130's with Diamond 130 test...about 800 yards per reel. Lucked in on a bite with 32 lbs at strike..about half way the spool I pushed it up too about max...65 to 70 lb...almost was spooled...had to go on plane chasing him not to get spooled..lost the hook set somewhere in there cause when he came tight again the hook pulled. What did I learn from this....well I thought and I thought, how can I prevent this from happening again, so I decided to look at the main vairables...1) Got out boards..backing down sometimes is not an option, 2) lots of boats criss-crossing, especially with fish on, so not too wise to have out a 1000 yards, so I decided on spooling with 500 yards of 200 Diamond and having 50 lbs at strike....in other words I am able to over power the fish when in a tight situation. I am wanting to change this to adding about 500 yards of 200lb Tuf Line with a top shot of about 200 yards of 200 test Diamond to have the stretch and have the extra yardage for thoes bites that I don't have to worry being cut-off by passing boats. I ordered large, very large hoo last Jan so I could use 12/0 hooks....all in an effort to put the brakes on that monster tuna..if and when he bites again. My biggest concern now is am I losing bites cause I am using 300 lb fluro...for thoes bites down deep...does it make a difference using 220 lb fluro.... and I can still back the drag down to 30 lb if I choose to...but I had rather pull a few hooks than be spooled by that mother.....I belive you need to have your gear set-up to over power the fish when its crunch time.

I think the type boat and crew dictates to a large extent what methods such as drag, line test, leader size, wind-on, type of wind-on, leader length, gaff versus harpoon to use.

Jim

[Off The Hook]

Wow alot of good info on this one....Im a check your drag by hand kind of guy...Ive done long enough to no where they need to be Ive done It that way for years & years & has worked great for me I adjust as needed when getting the baits In because for some reaseon the always get changed..Go figure.So always check the again & again when ever you can.Back to the point I check my drags 90% of the time behind who ever Is In my pit...When fishing from a small boat a have that luxury....

My drags are set at about 25lbs at strike....Im a big user of the two speed gears especaily when fighting big fish...I think us guys on smaller rigs have a little room on drag settings when fighting fish because we can use the boat to fight the fish very easy...Case In point me & Raymond had a lit up Blue one on the teaser so hard one year he broke It of the rigger as we bounced baits of his head & as luck would have It we had all dink rods out for whites & sails well he snagged the smallest dink rod we had 20 lb class rod on a tld 25 30lb line & 80lb leader he was about 250 to 300lbs..The boat was a 40 ft sport fish & It was a ***** to get that fish In with some luck & a light medium drag setting we got him after 45mins....Now If we had been on a 25ft I think we would have had him alot quicker & could of put some heat on him...

So my opinion of drag settings are set them where you feel comfortable use a drag checker or scale or If you feel good about It set them by hand...

[capt. jakeg]

I wasn't saying that pumping the rod tip to fight a fish isn't effective. If used properly it works great. The rod tip is to be slowly lifted with steady pressure from 15 to about 60 degrees. The line then cranked on as to apply even and steady pressure as the rod tip is lowered back to 15 degrees. It's a very effective tactic to be used ONLY when absolutely neccessary, and never to be used by someone who doesn't have a basic understanding of it and never when you have a fish acting frantic (shaking head, jumping, etc.). Now with that said, I'm not saying you don't know what you are doing with it, because it sounds like you are doing pretty darn good. 473# is a good fish, not matter what kind of tackle you got him on.

Keep in mind that my 50's and 70's are filled with 200 lb test Power Pro braid line, NOT mono. So, I have no stretch.

Which makes it worse for pumping the rod tip, the stretch in mono is somewhat more forgiving for this particular scenario. Using braid, should a fish shake its head or make a sudden turn towards the boat while the angler has the rod tip at the end of his up or down motion, the fish can very easily A. spit the hook B. get tail/fin/gill wrapped C. snap the line from the sudden shock when the line comes tight, much more easily with dacron than with mono because it becomes slack much easier.

I personally am not a big fan of the pumping technique, but what works for some doesnt for others.

[O-SEA-D]

I don't pump my fish. Don't know where you got the idea that I do.

I wasn't saying that pumping the rod tip to fight a fish isn't effective. If used properly it works great. The rod tip is to be slowly lifted with steady pressure from 15 to about 60 degrees. The line then cranked on as to apply even and steady pressure as the rod tip is lowered back to 15 degrees. It's a very effective tactic to be used ONLY when absolutely neccessary, and never to be used by someone who doesn't have a basic understanding of it and never when you have a fish acting frantic (shaking head, jumping, etc.). Now with that said, I'm not saying you don't know what you are doing with it, because it sounds like you are doing pretty darn good. 473# is a good fish, not matter what kind of tackle you got him on.



Which makes it worse for pumping the rod tip, the stretch in mono is somewhat more forgiving for this particular scenario. Using braid, should a fish shake its head or make a sudden turn towards the boat while the angler has the rod tip at the end of his up or down motion, the fish can very easily A. spit the hook B. get tail/fin/gill wrapped C. snap the line from the sudden shock when the line comes tight, much more easily with dacron than with mono because it becomes slack much easier.

I personally am not a big fan of the pumping technique, but what works for some doesnt for others.