DRAG KING

[Sea Draggin]

Marty,
We did some figuring based on 300 boats per day.

On average a little boat may spend around $200, a big boat $400.

That somewhere between $60,000 and $120,000 per day being spent on something between zero and 3 fish per day.

[BTH284]

Never BFT fished a day in my life, but you had one comment in your post that you can tell not alot of people do.
Instead of pumping the fish up, what is actually seems to be happening IMO is you reel down to take line back with the rod tip up (always 45 to 60 degrees angled to your torso) I might add and let the rod load up (flex, bend whatever), when that rod starts to come back to the un-bent position reel down again and reload the rod.
BE PATIENT AND LET THE ROD DO THE WORK AND LIFT THE FISH FOR YOU!!! If this scenario is played out over and over again, it looks like that the angler is actually pumping the rod up and down big big no no here.

Just trying to explain what works for me on meat fish and light tackle live bait.

[capt. jakeg]

Well said about the pumping of the rod tip Marty. I mated a striper charter about a month ago and we had one know-it-all guy onboard that I knew was going to be a problem. First hookup the guy flies out of the salon and grabs the rod before I could finish setting the drag. Fish off, and the guy looks at me like it was my fault. Second bite, fish on. I get the drag set and pass the doofus the rod and he starts pumping the rod up and down even faster than he can crank. I'm talking about pulling the tip of the rod up so quick, I'm surprised he didnt snap the 20# test on there. I was telling him the whole time to slow down, and no listen. Fish off. The guy tells me I need to sharpen the hooks better. Next fish, I quickly pass to his wife, before he can grab it out of my hands, he still tries to take it from his wife and she keeps it and just takes it easy, stripernbox. Fish on again, and the same guy wants the rod again. I passed it to him and he does the crazy pumping again and whuddya know the fish pops off. The guy passes me the rod and says "You guys (meaning me and the captain) need to figure out whats going on here". I couldn't take it anymore. I grabbed the rod and said "I've got it figured out. He's (the capt.) got it figured out. Fish are biting the lines and all YOU have to do is reel them in. It isnt that hard. You need to figure it out. I told you when I got on the boat this morning TO LISTEN TO WHAT I TELL YOU. YOU NEED TO FIGURE THAT OUT". The next fish that hit, guy comes flying out of the cabin, keep in mind that there are five other people there and this guy has had his hand on every bite but one. I set the drag, and keep the rod in the holder. I told the guy that he could crank the fish in, but he wasn't allowed to take the rod out of the holder. Landed that fish. The guy then tells me that fish was just hooked better. For the next five or so fish I never let any of the charter pull the rods out of the holder, and not a fish was lost. Point proven. I explained to the man that he was the reason that the fish were coming off and we worked on his technique. At the end of the day, the charter had caught their limit and even released a few and the guy told me that it was the best day fishing he ever had. He thanked me and the captain, tipped me, and went on his way. Point is- SLOW DOWN AND PAY ATTENTION.

[WAHOONBOX]

THE ROD TIP MOVEMENT......THE PUMPIMG ACTION.....

THIS GIVES ME SHIVERS DOWN MY BACKBONE


REMEMBER GUYS....I'M NOT THE ENEMY HERE...AND NEITHER IS CAPTJAKE....WE KNOW THE DRILL AS WELL IN THE "SMALLER BOAT" THING...I HAVE A 23' AS WELL

TAKE A FIVE GALLON BUCKET AND FILL IT WITH SAND...PUT THE LID ON IT...ATTACH YOUR SWIVEL TO A STAND UP 50WIDE....NOW LET OUT 200 YARDS OF MONO....

NOW START YOUR PUMPING ACTION ......WATCH THE LINE.....WHAT IS HAPPENING? IT'S YOUR CALL

I AM WITNESS TO A LOT OF PUMPING AND IF IT GETS BY ME FOR ONE MINUTE....IT'S BYE BYE...SEE YA LATER TUNER MORE TIMES THAN NOT

...SEE YA LATER WAHOOSKI...I HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS


...............NEXT

THE STRETCH OF MONO......NOT A LOT IS HAPPENING IN MY OBSERVATION WHEN THE "STRETCH' IS HAPPENING DURING THE PUMPING OPERATION

REMEMBER

I AM NOT TRYING TO DISCREDIT ANYONE HERE...I AM GIVING A POINT OF VIEW......WHAT WORKS FOR ME MAY VERY WELL NOT WORK FOR YOU

THIS IS NOTHING BUT.....DATA.......

I LIKE BIG INTERNET WORDS LIKE "DATA"

[O-SEA-D]

I completely understand what your talking about Marty. I apprecieate your honest answer as well. Thats the kind of stuff I like to hear. I don't mind being wrong and being told so. I am learning something new every day.

However, We have been Stand up BFT fishing for 3 years now. 50's if in the right hands work just as well as 80's or 130's IMO.

I broke a 630+ lb 98" fish that dressed out at 473 last week in an hour and a half.

Keep in mind that my 50's and 70's are filled with 200 lb test Power Pro braid line, NOT mono. So, I have no stretch.

I don't have any problem increasing strike drag. I just go by what has worked for us for a few years now and what I have been told to do by others that have done it much long than myself.

What should I put the strike drag at?

Thank you very much for the info.

[Sea Draggin]

John,

Since you asked, I run 30-32lbs of drag at strike on my 50's, also with 130 braid. They still freespool at this setting. My cousin and I have had hours worth of discussion about this and he runs 22-24. He says the fish don't panick as much with the lighter drag. But for me, 31 give or take, is what I know works and you don't get as stretched out in the crowd.

I guess I'm a glutten for punishment, because all I can think about is my next trip, fish or no fish.

Jim

[JB2C]

CMac, depends on your mainline strength. If it was 30-50#, you did the right thing. If it was 60-80#, I would have cranked up the drag more. It's all a risk. A longer fight and you risk exactly what happened. Or the hook working a hole and falling out. Increase drag and you could pop him off. 33% of mainline is the standard for drag. But I'll go well past that in certain situations. Just make sure your line is not knicked or chafed when you start your fishing day by checking it when you first let lines out.

SeaDraggin, interesting numbers. Let's see... there are more big boats than small boats out typically. But with the gas sipping down east boats out there, the gas numbers drop. I'd guess you can use $300 as an average. And probably an average of only 50 boats/day would be my guess. You have days with 300 but you have many more with only a handful out. Still, 50 boats X $300 = $15k per day in gas. We've caught 49mt since the fish showed up. I'd guess an average of 250 lbs dressed out per fish. Does that sound close? So that's about 430 fish caught in around 40 days of fishing. An average of about 10 fish/day. So that's 15K / 10 = $1,500 per fish in gas cost. And that doesn't even mention dockage, lodging, equipment and supplies, etc. which I'm sure would be at least as much as the gas. Sounds like somebody is making money and somebody is losing money. I need to see if I can't buy into a partnership with Mac at Gulf Docks!

No enemies here. Just opinions. I agree 15 lbs strike is way to light. Needs to be in the range of double that. But a 50 is capable of it. You just need to change out to 80# washers. Then you have a light weight outfit that is drag capable. Not as good as an 80, but reasonably close. And the weight can make a difference with standup fishing, depending on the angler's size/strength. With standup, the rod tips have to be alot more limber than the broom sticks used with 130's. It's not the rod that makes the jerky motion, it's the angler. As long as the angler is smooth, it shouldn't be a problem (that, of course, is a big IF!).

The 80 is plenty adequate for the job. So long as the job is defined as "landing the fish", and not 'landing the fish within 30 minutes". I'm more than happy to take a little extra time to land a fish. Don't get me wrong. I think both methods work fine, and if I could afford to buy a 40-60' boat and load it up with 130's, I probably would. But with the right techniques, I think stand up and 80's land 'em pretty darn well too. We've not fished nearly as much as Marty's numbers. Wish I could have, but I had limited time in December. Now that I have time, the fish have disappeared, and I don't want to contribute too much to those gas numbers mentioned above. But we haven't had any issues in landing them due to our reels.

On drags, you can get close by hand with experience. Not exact, but close. Heck, most of those brass scales most guys use are off 2-4 lbs anyways. I bet a guy during the BR tourney that his drags weren't what he thought they were. Just minutes after he sat them. Then proved to him his scale was wrong by almost 5 lbs.

Like Marty said, all are just opinions. And I'm learning every day I go fishing too. Maybe by the time I'm 90, I'll know what the heck I'm doing.

JB

[WAHOONBOX]

I completely understand what your talking about Marty. I apprecieate your honest answer as well. Thats the kind of stuff I like to hear. I don't mind being wrong and being told so. I am learning something new every day.
However, We have been Stand up BFT fishing for 3 years now. 50's if in the right hands work just as well as 80's or 130's IMO.

I broke a 630+ lb 98" fish that dressed out at 473 last week in an hour and a half.

Keep in mind that my 50's and 70's are filled with 200 lb test Power Pro braid line, NOT mono. So, I have no stretch.

I don't have any problem increasing strike drag. I just go by what has worked for us for a few years now and what I have been told to do by others that have done it much long than myself.

What should I put the strike drag at?

Thank you very much for the info.

TO ALL MY BUDDIES.......NO ONE IS WRONG HERE...AND NO ONE IS 100% RIGHT ......ALL I'M DOING IS PASSING ON THIRTY YEARS FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH....IF I HELPED ONE MAN CATCH HIS FIRST BFT...OR HELPED ONE MAN SIMPLIFY HIS RIGGING...OR HELPED ONE MAN CHUCKLE THROUGHOUT A TOUGH DAY....THEN I SAY....MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

DON'T THINK FOR ONE MINUTE THAT I DON'T LEARN FROM ALL OF YOU AS WELL!!! SOMETIMES I JUST THROW ANOTHER LOG ON DA FIRE TO GET SOME GREAT MINDS OUT THERE WORKING

[WAHOONBOX]

I AM ALSO STANDING BY TO HEAR THE BEAST BARK ON THIS ONE...AND ARK'S VIEW....JIMMY K'S....RHODEKILL....TOPAZ...FORM'....CANYON RUNNER...CAPT DUANE....CAPT MIKE ELLIS.....THE ARCH' HIMSELF.....SHARKSTER....SHANE...JAY....'FOOL ....MDSPORTSMAN AND THE REST OF YE BLOOD THIRSTY CROWD

[JB2C]

It's all opinion. And it's all good. We learn from other's opinions. And sometimes learn that our opinions are wrong. If it makes us better fishermen and fisherwomen, it's moving in the right direction. I know I have a couple of rigging questions I'd like to get an answer to. I NEED some opinions.

Maybe we can get a mix of reactions from both the 130 'winch' crowd and the 50/70/80 standup guys. Hey, Dennis Braid will be in town the 8th. Think we could get a discussion going between Marty and Dennis? That sounds like it would make for an interesting pow wow I'd like to be there for that one.

JB