down riggers for tuna

[Bert Rodgers]

Downriggers work fine. But a better set up is #225 braid and a # 16 Old Salty Planer instead of a ball.

Also your fishing line is not clipped to the planer. The planer is deployed. Then you let your bait out about 100feet. Then a double snap swivel or(my preference) a long line clip is used to attach a # 64 rubber band to the line. (the clip can slide up and down the planer/downrigger line). Now, with the clicker on, let the bait out. The wieght of the bait will pull it down as it pulls against the line angling down to the planer.

Good luck

Bert

[Tuna Taxi]

Use 1 1/2" dia rebar cut to length drilled and bridled at each end you can cut it to whatever weight you want and the small diameter helps it hang low even at faster speeds.

That's a good tip. Another way to make a big weight is to get a length of pipe and fill it with lead to whatever length you need to get the weight you want, then press the lead out of the pipe. I've also seen guys use sash weights. Lotsa ways to find/make big weights, but you won't find them in a tackle shop.

[Captain Fred Archer]

I HAVE TO TAKE BACK SOMETHING THAT I SAID WRONG IN MY POST ON DOWNRIGGER FISHING. I WROTE "THE MOST IMPORTANT TRICK OF THEM ALL IS THE HUMBLE DOWNRIGGER". THAT ISN'T WHAT I MEANT. I WAS WRITING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE ARE A FEW DEEP FISHING TRICKS OTHER THAN PLANERS AND THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT OF THOSE IS THE DOWNRIGGER. SORRY IF I MADE IT SOUND LIKE I THINK THAT DOWNRIGGERS ARE BETTER THAN PLANERS. THEY BOTH HAVE THEIR PLACES IN A SHARP ANGLER'S ARSENAL.

DOWNRIGGERS ARE DEADLY AS HELL ON DEEP FISH OF ALL KINDS, BUT THEY ARE "LESS FORGIVING" THAN PLANERS, IN THAT YOU HAVE TO BE SURE THAT YOU PUT THEM ON LOCATIONS OF FISH, AS OPPOSED TO PLANERS WHICH ARE BOTH A "SEARCH" AND A DESTROY TOOL. DOWNRIGGERS ARE NOT GOOD SEARCH TOOLS BECAUSE OF THE SLOW SPEEDS THAT THEY HAVE TO BE TROLLED AT COMPARED TO THE RELATIVE "RACE HORSES" THAT PLANERS ARE.

OF COURSE, IT IS TRUE THAT 90% OF THE FISH ARE IN 10% (FAR LESS, I THINK) OF THE WATER AND 90% OF THE FISHERMEN DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT 10% (OR LESS) IS. THE BEST IN THE GAME DO, OR AT LEAST WHERE AND WHAT THE MOST LIKELY LOCATIONS AND SITUATIONS ARE AND SO THEY TEND TO PUT THEIR DOWNIRIGGERS DOWN TO FISH THAT THEY HAVE FOUND IN ONE OF THE STRUCTURE SPOTS, CURRENT/TEMP BREAKS, CHLORO BREAKS, ETC. THAT THEY CHECK OUT BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY KNOW. THESE ARE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THINGS FOR FISHERMEN TO LEARN, NO MATTER HOW THEY ARE FISHING, OR WHAT THEY ARE FISHING WITH OR FOR.

BUT THERE ARE TRADE-OFFS IN EVERYTHING AND THAT INCLUDES THIS COMPARISON. FOR EXAMPLE, WHILE THE PLANER IS THE BETTER DEVICE FOR COVERING WATER, THE DOWNRIGGER LEAVES IT IN THE DUST WHEN IT COMES TO ABSOLUTE AND EXACT BAIT PLACEMENT RIGHT ON THE FISH.

I WILL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT THAT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN "CLOSE" IS GOOD ENOUGH WHEN IT COMES TO CATCHING FISH, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE OTHERS WHEN THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET A RISE OUT OF THEM IS BY PUTTING SOMETHING TANTALIZINGLY AND TEMPTINGLY CLOSE TO THE FISH, OFTEN RIGHT IN A SLOW-MOVING OR HOVERING-OVER-STRUCTURE (THINK WAHOO!) SCHOOL OF THEM TO GET A STRIKE. AT THESE TIMES THAT LITTLE STRAGGLER, TRYING TO CATCH BACK UP TO THE SAFETY OF ITS SCHOOL WILL TRIGGER A FISH OR TWO OUT OF A SCHOOL, WHEN A SCHOOL OF BAIT OR A SINGLE ONE SCOOTING BY RELATIVELY FAST THAT HAS TO BE RUN DOWN SIMPLY ISN'T GOING TO FIND A TAKER.

AND I HAVE ABSOLUTELY FOUND THAT JUST AS IT IS WHEN EVERYTHING IS UP TOP, WHEN THE FISH ARE ON VERY SMALL BAIT, WHICH THEY GET ON A GREAT DEAL OF THE TIME BECAUSE AT ANY ONE TIME, IT IS USUALLY THE SINGLE MOST ABUNDANT FOOD SOURCE IN A GIVEN AREA, TROLLING SPEED BECOMES EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. AT TIMES LIKE THAT THE BIGGER FISH WON'T BE FOUND BURNING UP GREAT DEALS OF ENERGY CHASING FASTER, STRONGER, BIGGER BAIT, BUT WILL INSTEAD BE CONCENTRATING ON AND COMPLETELY FOCUSED ON THE ABUNDANT AND COMPARATIVELY EASY-TO- CATCH LITTLE STUFF. THIS HAPPENS WITH ALL GAMEFISH, EVEN BILLFISH, BUT IT IS MOST COMMON AMONG THE TUNAS, MAHIS AND WAHOOS. A WAY TOO LARGE PERCENTAGE OF FISHERMEN DON'T TAKE THIS INTO ACCOUNT, LET ALONE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

NEVER FORGET THAT IT IS THE FISH, NOT ME, THE GUY IN THE TACKLE SHOP, OR MOST ON THE RADIO, OR THAT GUY IN THE AVERAGE 'PIT THAT PRESENT US WITH FISHING OPTIONS, GOOD OR BAD. NO, IT IS THE FISH THAT NOT ONLY DO THAT, BUT THAT DO IT BEST...IT IS UP TO US TO RECOGNIZE THOSE OPTIONS AND THEN REACT TO THEM THE BEST AND MOST NATURAL WAY IF WE WANT TO GIVE 'EM WHAT THEY WANT THAT DAY, SO WE CAN STACK 'EM UP TALL! AND MY FRIENDS, I HOPE THAT I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE NOT DOING THE SAME THING EVERY DAY. IF YOU ARE, WELL?

AND JUST LIKE THE GREAT WHALES, OR US WHEN WE'RE EATING LITTLE THINGS LIKE SALTED PEANUTS OR POPCORN, THE GAMEFISH WON'T BE HUNTING THE LITTLE STUFF DOWN AND EATING IT ONE AT A TIME. THAT WOULD MAKE NO NATURAL SENSE AT ALL. AND SO, LIKE US WITH THE PEANUTS AND POPCORN AND THE WHALES WITH WHAT IS TO A GREAT EXENT THE SAME LITTLE STUFF THAT THE TUNAS EAT, TUNA AND OTHER GAMEFISH TEND TO GULP DOWN AS MANY OF THE LITTLE BAITS AS THEY CAN FIT IN THEIR MOUTHS AT ONCE.

LITTLE TINY BAITS ARE UNIVERSALLY SLOW, WHICH ALSO MAKES THEM ATTRACTIVE TO GRAB MOUTHFULS OF AT A TIME. I LOOK AT IT THIS WAY; IF I WERE TRYING TO GET A WHALE TO HIT A TINY BAIT, I WOULDN'T WASTE MY TIME TRYING TO DO THAT WITH A LITTLE, SINGLE LURE. NO WAY! INSTEAD, I WOULD OFFER THAT WHALE WHAT HE WAS USED TO EATING, A WHOLE, SLOW MOVING POD OF BAIT...AND I OFFER LITTLE BAIT EATING TUNA - INCLUDING SOME GREAT BIG MOTHERS - THE VERY SAME THING IN THE FORM OF A LITTLE OR BABY SPIDER TROLLED SLOWLY AND NATURALLY INTO, AROUND, OR THROUGH A SCHOOL OF THEM AND OTHER GAMEFISH...AND I OFTEN FLAT MURDER THEM!

(SEE THE DRAWING BELOW FOR HOW I PLACE MY LITTLE BAR, SPIDER AND RUCKUS RAISER CHASEBAITS TO ENHANCE MY HOOKUPS ON THESE "MOUTHFUL" FISH.)

IF YOU HAVE CAUGHT ENOUGH WAHOO AND NOT ONLY CAUGHT THEM, BUT EXAMINED THEIR STOMACH CONTENTS LIKE I HAVE ON EVERY SINGLE ONE THAT I HAVE CAUGHT AND KILLED (I HAVE RELEASED A LOT) ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND WORLD FOR OVER FIFTY YEARS OF HUNTING AND CATCHING THEM, YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT I DO - THAT JUST LIKE TUNA, WAHOO EAT A HELLUVA LOT OF VERY SMALL BAITS, INCLUDING SOME REAL STRIPED HORSES. THEY TOO OFTEN PREY ON THE VERY SAME LITTLE BAITS THAT THE TUNAS AND DORADOS AND EVERYTHING ELSE DOES. AND IF YOU TAKE THAT TO ITS NEXT LOGICAL STEP, YOU'LL REALIZE THAT THAT VERY SAME LITTLE POD OF SMALL BAITS THAT A SPIDER IMMITATES SO WELL IS ALSO WHAT IT ALSO IS - A HELLUVA WAHOO SLAYER.

I WRITE ABOUT THIS EXTENSIVELY IN THE BOOKS THAT MANY OF YOU RECENTLY RECEIVED, SO I WILL LEAVE IT TO YOU TO DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO TRY THIS DEADLY TECHNIQUE YOURSELVES OR NOT.

SOME FINAL THOUGHTS...

BOTH BIGGER AND SMALLER BAITS WORK WELL OFF OF DOWNRIGGERS, BUT SPIDERS WITH BIGGER SQUIDS ARE GENERALLY PREFERRED ON PLANERS BECAUSE OF THE HIGHER SPEED PRESENTATIONS MOST APPLY WITH THEM.

AND I REMIND YOU AGAIN THAT WHEN MOST LITTLE BAIT IS DEEP OR UP TOP, ESPECIALLY ONES LIKE PELAGIC RED CRABS, SMALL SQUID, OCTOPI AND EVEN THE FRY OF MANY BOTTOM AND SURFACE SPECIES THAT SPEND THEIR EARLY DAYS IN THE SURFACE "SOUP", SMALL SURFACE BARS ARE MUCH BETTER RUN SLOWLY THAN THEY ARE FAST. THE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT ARE USUALLY BONITOS AND SKIPJACKS, NOT THE REAL TUNAS.

MY GENERAL RULE OF THUMB IS TO GO FASTER WITH BIGGER BOATS AND SLOWER WITH LITTLE ONES.

SPIDERS AND SPREADERBARS WAY OUTFISH DAISYCHAINS. I USED TO WRITE ABOUT, MAKE AND SELL THEM. I HAVEN'T DONE ANY OF THAT FOR YEARS NOW. THE MODERN SPREADERBAR, SPIDER AND RUCKUSRAISERS ARE WHAT DAISYCHAINS EVOLVED INTO MANY YEARS AGO. THE THREE ARE IN ACTUALITY THREE-TO-SIX DAISYCHAINS ARRANGED IN NATURAL SCHOOL FORMATIONS THAT TAKE UP FAR LESS SPACE LENGTHWISE THAN EVEN A SINGLE DAISYCHAIN, THAT ARE ALL FISHED OFF OF ONE ROD, NOT THE THREE-TO-SIX THAT DAISYCHAINS REQUIRE. DAISIES ARE EASY AS PIE TO MAKE AND THERE IS STILL DEMAND FOR THEM, SO WHY DON'T WE SELL THEM? THEY NO LONGER MAKE SENSE NOW THAT SPREADERBARS, SPIDERS AND RUCKUSRAISERS HAVE COME ALONG.

BACK IN MY DAYS AT SHIMANO WE TAGGED OUR CATALOGS AND ADS WITH THE SAYING, "TOMORROW'S TACKLE TODAY". DID YOU EVER WONDER WHERE THAT STATEMENT CAME FROM? REGARDLESS OF THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION, IT IS ONE THAT I STILL LIVE BY TODAY.

THAT'S WHY NO DAISYCHAINS ARE OFFERED BY BEST OF BIG GAME.

FINALLY, I ORIGINALLY STARTED ON THIS THREAD TO POINT OUT THAT AS THIS HORRIBLE FUEL CRISIS CONTINUES TO CRIPPLE OUR FISHING EFFORTS, AND ANYBODY BUT THE BIGGEST FOOL KNOWS THAT IT IS GOING TO GET WORSE, NOT BETTER, SAVING PRECIOUS FUEL CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED TO A SUBSTANTIAL DEGREE ON MANY BOATS BY SLOWING DOWN AND FISHING WITH DOWNRIGGERS WITHOUT SACRIFICING OUR RESULTS. AND IT CAN ACTUALLY IMPROVE MANY FISHERMENS' CATCHES.

DON'T BE AFRAID OF OR UNDERESTIMATE WHAT WE USED TO CALL "THE DITCH DIGGER" ON THE VHF IN THE NOT-SO-OLD DAYS WHEN WE DIDN'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE USING THEM. LEARN TO USE THAT DITCH DIGGER AND ODDS ARE THAT YOU WILL GROW TO LOVE IT FOR THE GOLD MINER THAT IT TRULY IS, JUST AS I HAVE.

THERE IS MORE, BUT I'M DONE PREACHIN' AND BESEECHIN' FOR NOW.

THE PICTS ARE A COMPARISON OF A DAISYCHAIN TO A SPEADERBAR THAT ACTUALLY HAS LESS SQUID ON IT THAN ANY THAT WE MAKE. THEN THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENT SIZE SPIDERS AND FINALLY, HOW WE "MOUTHFUL RIG" CHASEBAITS ON LITTLE BARS, SPIDERS AMD RUCKUS'.

[Rob Rondini]

anyone have any luck with a manns stretch 40+ in pink on tuna. i hear they work well but i think it might be too much action. any thoughts?

[shipmate bill]

anyone have any luck with a manns stretch 40+ in pink on tuna. i hear they work well but i think it might be too much action. any thoughts?

You wanna go with the 50's anything smaller isn't rigged strong enough. We had tunas and wahoo crush them and lost fish because the guts of the plug failed. The 50's are rigged well enough to stand the fight. The plug might be destroyed but you won't lose the fish.

[Captain Fred Archer]

OUCH! AT MUCHO DINERO PER COPY, THAT GETTING CRUSHED AND MAYBE DESTROYED STUFF CAN WIND UP A CHARTERBOAT NIGHTMARE, BOTH FROM THE LURE COST AND LOST FISH ANGLES. YET ANOTHER NEGATIVE IS THAT MANY HAVE TO BE RE-TUNED TO GET THEM TO RUN RIGHT AFTER CATCHING A FISH ON THEM.

THAT IS ONE OF THE MANY THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUI WAHOO BARS AND SPIDERS - THEY ARE SIMPLE, EFFICIENT HOOKING LURES THAT NEVER REQUIRE TUNING, WHETHER IT'S BEFORE OR AFTER CATCHING A FISH. AND UNLIKE THE PLUGS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE EXPENSIVE BACKUPS STANDING BY FOR AFTER A WAHOO OR EVEN A BIG MAHI IS TOSSED INTO THE COOLER OR BOX WITH THE LURE ATTACHED TO LET THE FISH CROAK BEFORE ANYONE TRIES TO TAKE THE HOOK OUT OF HIM. THAT'S SOP ON MY BOATS AND I WARN PEOPLE IN "HEED OR BLEED'S" IN MY BOOKS NOT TO TRY TO TAKE THE HOOKS OUT OF LIVE WAHOO BECAUSE OF THE DANGER AND CONSEQUENCES OF GETTING BITTEN. WAHOO BITES ARE AMONG THE WORST IN ALL FISHING AND I HOPE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEE ONE TO UNDERSTAND THAT AND AVOID ONE AT ALL COSTS.

WITH WAHOOBARS AND SPIDERS, WHEN A 'HOO GOES INTO THE BOX, THE LEADER IS UNSNAPPED FROM THE TEASERS AND ONLY IT AND THE FISH GO IN THE BOX. THEN IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF SECONDS BEFORE AN INEXPENSIVE NEW CHASEBAIT IS SNAPPED ON AND THAT UNIT IS BACK IN THE WATER WHILE THE BITE IS STILL ON, INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR THE WAHOO TO CHILL OUT SO THAT THE ORIGINAL CHASEBAIT CAN BE REMOVED. THAT CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NICE PILE OF FISH OR ONLY ONE OR TWO.

AND THE ONLY WAY THAT A CHASEBAIT CAN GET DESTROYED IS WHEN A 'HOO CHEWS THE SQUID UP SO MUCH THAT IT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. HERE THE VERY LOW COST OF CHASEBAITS SHINES AGAIN, JUST AS IT DOES WITH BACKUP ONES. ALL THAT YOU HAVE TO DO ONCE THE SQUID GETS CHEWED TOO MUCH TO FISH WITH ANYMORE IS TO CUT THE TOP LOOP OF THE LEADER OFF, SLIDE THE ORIGINAL OFF, AND SLIDE A NEW ONE ON, RE-DO THE LOOP AND YOU ARE READY TO ROCK. ALL OF THAT TAKES A FRACTION OF THE TIME IT TAKES FOR EVEN THE FASTEST BALLYHOO RIGGER TO DO THE SAME THING WITH A BALLYHOO.

THE BEST PART HERE IS THAT, DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF SQUID, THE ACTUAL COST OF THAT REPLACEMENT IS LESS THAN JUST ONE BALLYHOO, IF YOU HAVE THEM SHIPPED TO YOU! AND THAT DIFFERENCE IS GOING TO GET EVEN GREATER AS AIR SHIPPING COSTS SKYROCKE!

THAT IS MIGHTY NICE WHEN IT COMES TO LIMITED CHARTERBOAT AND EVEN PRIVATE BOAT BUDGETS, PLUS UNLIKE REAL MEAT, THE SQUIDS NOT ONLY MAKE FOR INEXPENSE BACKUPS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE STORED, PREPPED, REFRIGERATED, AND MANY TIMES TOSSED OUT AFTER NOT EVEN CATCHING FISH AFTER A SHORT TIME. THAT ADDS UP TO EVEN MORE WASTED TIME AND MONEY THAT THE CHASEBAITS WILL SAVE.

I HAVEN'T USED A PLUG OF ANY KIND FOR MANY YEARS NOW, IN SPITE OF HAVING DONE SO FOR MANY YEARS AND CATCHING A LOT OF FISH ON THEM. THAT IS SIMPLY BECAUSE I CATCH A HELLUVA LOT MORE WAHOO AND OTHER FISH ON THE WAHOOBARS AND SPIDERS AT FAR LESS COST AND TROUBLE.

[weekender]

Captain Fred Archer , please clear some of your PM, your box is full

[Bert Rodgers]

While pink is my favorite color for witches and chuggers I don't use it on deep lines because the refraction of the water causes pink to become an indistinct color at about 25 feet. In fact it is the 1st color on the spectrum to go. Pinks reds and oranges become shades of grey.

Greens on the other hand are still visable down to about 75 feet. And White/Crystal is ALWAYS White/Crystal.

Food for thought.

Bert

[Fiore3]

We have been running downriggers the last two trips and have had bluefin and a 20# Mahi hit the baits down 60 ft... I like them but they can get in the way when setting out stuff...

[Captain Fred Archer]

LURE COLOR IS SOMETHING THAT I RARELY GET INTO, AND WHEN I DO I STATE CLEARLY THAT I AM ONLY CONCERNED WITH TWO COLORS - BLACK AND WHITE, OR OTHER COLORS THAT HAPPEN TO BE COMBINED WITH THEM (TO MAKE THEM MORE ACCEPTABLE TO FISHERMEN).

FIORE...GOOD TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR DOWNRIGGER EXPERIENCES, INCLUDING THAT DEEP MAHI. THERE ARE ACTUALLY MANY TIMES WHEN THESE FISH THAT MOST THINK OF AS STRICTLY SURFACE SWIMMERS ARE WELL DOWN IN THE WATER COLUMN AND ARE NEITHER SEEN NOR CAUGHT BY THOSE WHO DON'T REALIZE HOW MUCH "DOWN TIME" THEY SPEND. AND SINCE THEY (AND EVERYTHING ELSE) ARE DEEP BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE BIG BUNCHES OF BAIT ARE, THEY ARE EXTREMELY UNLIKELY TO RAISE TO THE TYPICAL SKINNY SURFACE PATTERNS MOST TROLL.

AS FAR AS THE DOWNRIGGERS BEING A BIT OF A PAIN, AS IT IS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE, AFTER YOU FISH WITH THEM FOR A WHILE YOU'LL GET USED TO THEM AND THEY WILL BECOME SECOND NATURE AND VERY EASY TO USE.

CONGRATS ON BEING A THINKING ANGLER WHO EXPERIMENTS AND LEARNS, AND ON TOP OF THAT, ONE WHO IS WILLING TO PASS ON WHAT HE HAS LEARNED.

NOW DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN WHEN I CALL THEM "GOLD DIGGERS"? NOW ADD SOME SPIDERS AND YOU ARE GOING TO CATCH EVEN MORE OF THOSE DEEP FISH!