Circle hook questions – size, cedar plug, hi-speed trolling

[Buckwheat]

Now that the Kevlar is off and its back in the 9-5 civilian world, I’m hoping to make up for lost fishing time come April. I did a search & seek on the forums and have a few questions about circle hooks and their application for Tuna and Wahoo. Hoping someone can shed some light or guide me in the right direction.

1. What is the rule of thumb to convert J hook size to circle hook size? If you typically use a 9/0 Mustad 7761, 7731, etc., would you move up to a size 14/0 circle? Or do you literally lay one over the other and match the gap?

2. Are circle hooks possible when using “wooden” cedar plugs vice the standard 3412 needle eye? If so, would a few beads be necessary between the hook eye and the end of the plug for proper hook movement, hook up, etc.?

3. Will circle hooks be effective when hi-speed trolling for Wahoo, given the stiff rigged method, size of cable used, and possible skirt tangling?

I read as much as I could find, especially on Wahoo King, Capt Archer ,and Bahama Lure. I didn’t find much of anything regarding hi-speed application and the only reference to cedar & circles was Capt Archer’s reply about the aluminum ones easily sliding thru the Wahoo’s mouth.

I think I might’ve corkscrewed myself into the ground w/info overload!!

Thanks

[Greeneyed Pickle]

2. Are circle hooks possible when using “wooden” cedar plugs vice the standard 3412 needle eye? If so, would a few beads be necessary between the hook eye and the end of the plug for proper hook movement, hook up, etc.?

There was an article in one of the offshore magazines a while back that talked about putting circle hooks on cedar plugs. Was a pretty good read but the author admitted that it was a work in progress.

I put a few together with circle hooks but I haven't pulled them yet. I may pull one when I get up to Hatteras when the weather settles out this month or next.

Good luck!

Tim

[Captain Rich Adler]

Why would you need to? The purpose of circle hooks is to prevent fish from getting gut hooked when they eat a bait. I've yet to see a wahoo in that situation. They always seem to be mouth/jaw hooked. Rig cedar plugs with a needle eye hook and enjoy yourself, save the circles for bait trolling.

[Buckwheat]

Capt Adler - I'm not sure why I would want to. Hard to argue your logic. Thanks.

What's your MO on choosing circle hook size to replce the Js on bait trolling rigs?

[Captain Rich Adler]

I'm not going to give you sizes since that seems to vary from company to company, I look at the size of the bait, I use a non-offset hook (trolls straight) a little larger than the size of the head of the bait. It seems to work for me. I troll circles for whites and tuna up here, down in the tropics I use larger circles because of the blues and blacks. Trolling for big marlin, I can bridle the circles to live baits or use a small circle hook in the nose of the bait connected by a swivel to a large circle hook for the marlin.

[striper swiper]

You want the gap from point to shank to be the same as where it is attached to the plug. But trolling cedar is a worst application scenario. If you put it in the plug it won't rotate around the jaw to hook up reliably. If you use a set-back it will kill the action because you are now adding a rudder to straighten the direction it swims. Instead of the erratic action that is causing the strikes in the first place. I tried pulling divers with circles here are my findings. Because the diver has an action the hook is not in position at least 50% of the time. Why put a bait that already has you at a disadvantage???
A skirted lure or a swimming lure with the circle hook in the head is a different story. I won't explain how to rig a circle in a bait plenty of videos here for that. But a skirted lure is basically the same principal only the hook is in back of the skirt. You need to expose the hook completely so that it can rotate around the jaw. Ringed circles or swiveled circles are optimum, but you can still use an offshore loop if it easily goes through the eye of the hook

[Buckwheat]

Capt Adler / Striper Swiper

Thank you both for taking the to reply. Great explanations/advice. I know what I'll be doing tomorrow!

[BahamaLure]

Buckwheat I really do not think the book has been written yet on this subject, go for it all and report back! I am equally interested in the results you might come up with as you are in what anyone else has to say about this circle hook/lure thing. Best of luck!

[Buckwheat]

Am seriously thinking about several days of pulling one side cedars/Js & swimmers/Js and on the other side cedars/Cs & swimmers/Cs and log it all. Was also contemplating, a la Capt Archer, rigging one cedar/C and three cedar/Js and rotating rod holders clockwise every 30-45 min or so. Same for swimming plugs. Fuel $$$$ would suck proving/disproving initially but if there's overwhelming evidence for one way or the other, the returns may be worth it. Maybe even add a few pages to the book!!!!!!

Thanks for the return BL.

[WahooKing]

While I haven't tried circles on the high speed troll, I can tell you that a cedar does not work with cable leader on the high speed troll...We have tried and every time the cable lure leader comes in twisted up...It appears a cedar has to much "darting around" action...even behind a trolling sinker at 16kts...It would prob. work if the cedar plug's weight was evenly distributed and had a skirt attached to the tail end...maybe it would stabilize it.

Circles could work on the high speed troll...just not sure if your hook up percentages would increase any more than a double hook J...Our hook up to boat ratio is pretty high with a 0 degree double J hook rig....Just one thing to take into consideration with cable hook rigs on the high speed troll...If its free swinging off the cable rigging, the vibrations will weaken the cable after time...I've seen to many free swinging hooks on 900lb cable come in without a hook on the high speed troll.

Good luck
Anthony