Longbilled Spearfish in PV?!?!?!?!

[Capt Josh]

Thanks to everyone for weighing in on the subject!!! Looking through our shots we got very lucky and managed to get a photo of the anal vent location on both fish. Check it out....

Doug Olander saw this photo and deduced that perhaps it was a LB Spearfish because the distance of the anal vent to the primary anal fin was equal to the distance of the depth of the primary anal fin. This distance, allegedly, separates further as the fish grows.

However, since we do not have scale samples, and the fact that there hasn't been any real proof of LB Spearfish in the Pacific - we will have to assume that these juvenile billfish were in fact striped marlin.

What makes me unsure though, is that if you read the scientific jargon they never really say that LB Spearfish DON'T exist in the Pacific. They stop short of that, going so far as to say in one paper that they could very well be in the Pacific and could have been mistaken for juvenile striped marlin.

Until two years ago people thought White Marlin and Hatchet Marlin (Roundscale spearfish) were the same species. I guess you just never know!

Next one i catch, hopefully it happens, is going to the morgue for further research!

[Capt Josh]

It's bad enough that JT rolls with Tom Curren at a secret spot in Mexico, parties like a rock star on an east coast tour, and tears up the fish on a daily basis. Now he catches fish that aren't supposed to exist in his home waters. JT I have one question: ARE YOU A GOD?

Hahahhahahaha....NO!

You're looking in the wrong direction amigo!!! :

[fishvenezuela]

Another photo of a longbill spearfish caught in Feburary 2009. We hooked a triple header with two white marlin and the longbill spearfish.........

[Ultralite]

The pic of the anal vent shows it right in front of the anal fin. Compare that to the photo on page 5 of 31 in the following paper Description and Relationships of the Longbill Spearfish....:

http://docserver.ingentaconnect.com/...2E5A1BF3DEB8E1

Anal vent is well in front of the anal fin vs that in your pictures. Sorry, but those are clearly striped marlin.

Some other descriptions from the article:

Actually, belone is easily distinguished from such species at
any size. It differs from all Atlantic istiophorids in the anterior placement of the **** and the high number (46-53) of dorsal spines.

T. belone may be readily identified by the following combination of characters: the high number of spines in the first dorsal fin, the form of the spinous dorsal fin, the anterior placement of the ****, the bill length and the form and height of the first anal fin.


The dorsal profile of both the sailfish and the white marlin rises sharply above and behind the eye (fig. 3c). Thus these species have a characteristic dorsal hump in front of the dorsal fin whereas this region is even in longbill spearfish from the dorsal-fin origin to well in front of the eyes, and in smaller specimens to the bill tip.

Note: this is the forehead slope I mentioned. White marlin are very close to striped marlin which would exhibit the same.

Finally, count the dorsal rays in the 3rd pic of this thread "the other fish". I get somewhere between 30 and 35 rays. That's not even close to the 46 - 53 cited in the posted scientific article. It's a striped marlin.

[Capt Josh]

Hey Josh,

I'm with Wireman, cute little striped marlins. Looks like the tip of anal dorsal is a bit squared off like a stripey to me and it looks like its starting on the main dorsal too. I've never caught one quite that small but several in the teens and truckloads in the 20s and they do have really tall dorsal up front as well as high all the way back. it starts becoming less pronounced as they get bigger. To thin bodied and bill way to long for a blue (I've got a few of those in the 20lb range).

Did they look like little rain birds coming in behind the lure?

Guess we'll really never know for sure on those two but stipey is my guess.

Aloha,

Chip

Thanks Chip and everyone for weighing in. It's been fun trying to figure out what those buggers were!

Now for our quest for the elusive PV swordfish...stay tuned for that one!

Of course we've already established that the PV Swordswallowing Spinner is alive and well here in our local waters. So an actual swordfish can't be that far behind....

[fishvenezuela]

The pic of the anal vent shows it right in front of the anal fin. Compare that to the photo on page 5 of 31 in the following paper Description and Relationships of the Longbill Spearfish....:

http://docserver.ingentaconnect.com/...2E5A1BF3DEB8E1

Anal vent is well in front of the anal fin vs that in your pictures. Sorry, but those are clearly striped marlin.

Some other descriptions from the article:

Actually, belone is easily distinguished from such species at
any size. It differs from all Atlantic istiophorids in the anterior placement of the **** and the high number (46-53) of dorsal spines.

T. belone may be readily identified by the following combination of characters: the high number of spines in the first dorsal fin, the form of the spinous dorsal fin, the anterior placement of the ****, the bill length and the form and height of the first anal fin.


The dorsal profile of both the sailfish and the white marlin rises sharply above and behind the eye (fig. 3c). Thus these species have a characteristic dorsal hump in front of the dorsal fin whereas this region is even in longbill spearfish from the dorsal-fin origin to well in front of the eyes, and in smaller specimens to the bill tip.

Note: this is the forehead slope I mentioned. White marlin are very close to striped marlin which would exhibit the same.

Finally, count the dorsal rays in the 3rd pic of this thread "the other fish". I get somewhere between 30 and 35 rays. That's not even close to the 46 - 53 cited in the posted scientific article. It's a striped marlin.

Note: you can count all the dorsal spines (rays) you want. The position of the anal vent is your proof. Only a DNA sample is more convincing.

Josh delivered with the ASS photo,......... Awesome!

CASA CERRADO mi pana!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pana=amigo.

[fishvenezuela]

Looks just like the short billed spears we get in the Gulf Of Mexico with the exception of the bill length.

TITLEWAVE,

Those shortbill spearfish you get in the Gulf Of Mexico would be just as bizzare as Josh catching a longbill spearfish in the Pacific.

The spearfish that mainly roam the Western Atlantic Ocean (Gulf of Mexico) are LONGBILL spearfish...............

[Captain Fred Archer]

Sobrino,

Si, es un rayalo chico...muy bonito, eh?

Pero pico largo? Now, that's one that there's no mistaking for anything else. You have crossed that difficult bridge of actually catching one, "Holy shit, it works!", so go get one or two and post his purty face up here for your old Tio to say, "Attaboy!" over.

Suerte, joven!

[Capt Chip]

Thanks Chip and everyone for weighing in. It's been fun trying to figure out what those buggers were!

Now for our quest for the elusive PV swordfish...stay tuned for that one!

Of course we've already established that the PV Swordswallowing Spinner is alive and well here in our local waters. So an actual swordfish can't be that far behind....

I just noticed the box next to PV Swordswallowing Spinner on my bucket list remains unchecked! I'm assuming you could troll for them and raise them on lures. Is Green the best color?

On a related vien: I friend of mine just caught an 80lb swordfish trolling a couple lures at night out at the southern cross seamount while commercial tuna fishing. The bait was a 7 inch, glow in the dark Ahi Pussy of course.

Aloha,

Chip

[Ultralite]

Note: you can count all the dorsal spines (rays) you want. The position of the anal vent is your proof. Only a DNA sample is more convincing.

Josh delivered with the ASS photo,......... Awesome!

CASA CERRADO mi pana!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pana=amigo.

I agree, the dorsal spine count was just to lock the door shut on this. The position of the anal vent is your most definitive proof. I saw it as a stripey from a number of other features without the ASS photo. The photos of the Venezuelan long billed spearfish helped highlight the distinguishing features.