What is a "Carolina" boat?

[Avenger]

Okay, here’s a new thread to open up this topic with apologies to sf_surfr for our digression on his thread. For background on how this got started here’s the link:

I need to be schooled on Planked Carolina boats!!!

Crib-notes in case you don’t want to do the reading: During a discussion about the merits of fiberglass vs. wood, a few members were of the opinion that my Hatteras is not a “Carolina” boat. So the question is, how do you define a “Carolina” boat?

I’m going to guess it’s more than where it’s built. Features like bow flare, tumblehome and a broken sheer-line seem to be a gimmie, but most of those things appear on other hulls as well. Rybovitch is generally credited as the originator of the broken sheer-line and obviously builders copy ideas from each other. So there don’t seem to be any specific features that are solely the domain of “Carolina” boats.

Also, all of these features have evolved over time so older boats i.e. mine don’t have the same amount of flare or tumblehome as many of the newer ones. Are they still “Carolinas”, does that make them “Classic Carolinas” or do they get disqualified?

Let’s hear your thoughts and please post pictures to support your position. If we get nothing else from this we should at least get to look at some good boat ****.

[Avenger]

I'm starting with pictures of my boat because they're the handiest. Also, I'm backtracking a little here because clt_capt posted the excerpt from "Carolina Flare" below while I was assembling these pictures.

So starting with these pictures, of course it's not as exaggerated as on the newer boats, but are the features there? Tumblehome, flare, sharp entry and spray rails (molded in, in this case), warped hull-form, S-curve, hawk (still not sure I understand this)?

Opinions please.

[clt_capt]

The Carolina Flare

Characteristics and construction of the Carolina-style sportfishing boat


The following is an excerpt from the recently released book, Carolina Flare, Outer Banks Building and Sportfishing Heritage, by Neal, John and Jim Conoley, a father/sons writing team from North Carolina. The trio did an excellent job of interviewing, researching and uncovering old photographs and stories from the earliest days of Carolina-style boatbuilding. It makes for a fascinating and entertaining read that's sure to thrill anyone interested in offshore boats.



Flare: The upward and outward curvature of the hull at the bow is a feature that exemplifies the Carolina style. An exaggerated flare helps deflect waves and spray away from the hull. The "Carolina flare" is recognized around the world.



Broken Sheer Line: The broken sheer line is a curved step-down of the sheer line as it sweeps from the bow to the stern. This feature provides a pleasing transition from the inset cabin to the low, straight cockpit gunwales.


S-Frame: The S-frame, sometimes known as S-curve, refers to the shape of the hull from the sheer line, past the chine to the keel. The S-frame provides more interior space for living quarters.


Sharp Entry: The sharp entry, or deep-Vee forward, is a design feature on Carolina-style boats that allows the boat to knife through waves. The sharp entry combined with a hull that flattens toward the stern results in a vessel that performs well in both head seas and following seas.


Exaggerated Tumblehome: The tumblehome is when the width of the beam, most often measured at the transom, is wider than the width of the uppermost deck. The tumblehome is a feature that adds a pleasing look to the boat.


Hawk and Exaggerated Spray Rails: Carolina-style boats have a noticeable "hawk" or hook where the bow stem, flare and foredeck converge. The hawk curves upward to provide stability and pleasing lines to the bow of the boat.
Exaggerated spray rails not only help deflect ocean spray down and away from the boat but they also provide extra lift for the hull.

[clt_capt]

Sorry - not trying to hijack the thread.
Opinions are gonna vary and are going to be diverse.

When someone says "Carolina boat" to me, I think of the Oregon Inlet or Hatteras fleet - mostly plank & frame or cold molded - although there are exceptions...

While the Albatross fleet is undoubtedly "Carolina" they don't look that much like the more modern boats.

As for the S-Curve, I tried to illustrate it here;

[Avenger]

Not a hijack at all. This is supposed to be that kind of thread. When we're all done here we may discover that the definition of a Carolina boat is nothing but opinion.

But I'm curious to hear them. Do people think a boat has to be wood, or that it has to have a bow that's ready for catapults before they'll recognise it as a Carolina.

And certainly these things are evolutionary, so the newer boats will look different. As I stated in the other thread, some of the builders are starting to pull back on the shapes. I remember the Canyon Runner guys saying they ordered their boat with less tumblehome because too much of it made it difficult to handle fish alongside the boat. Will the next generation of them start to look more like the old boats?

BTW, thanks for the quotes from the Flare book. I think I need to get a copy. Damn! That's what I should have put on my Christmas list.

Re: the curve. I understand the S curve, it's the Hawk description that confuses me. Are they talking about the shape of the stem? They're saying it curves upward, to me that means the curve turns upward comin up from the waterline. But they may be referring to something more like a clipper bow.

[gottaflylee]

For me, a Carolina boat is one that is NOT popped out of a mold, no 2 are exactly a like, most started with the "pulling of the string".

To get the "fit and finish", they must be hand faired out, built on frams or cold molded.

Many great boats are mabe in NC but are not a 'Carolina" boat, Grady White, Foutaion, Southern Skimmer, "Tara" was, "Hatteras" as well as many others but they are not, "Carolina" boats due to how they were built, even though they are built here in NC.

When a boat is popped out of a mold that is used over and over, that is not a "Carolina boat". Many other makers build the "Carolina" style and I am sure won't name the all, but from Jersey on down through Florida, "Carolina" style boats are built that are NOT popped out of a mold.

It is the method of how it is built more than the look...

A Ricky...

[Bligh]

For me, a Carolina boat is one that is NOT popped out of a mold, no 2 are exactly a like, most started with the "pulling of the string".

To get the "fit and finish", they must be hand faired out, built on frams or cold molded.

Many great boats are mabe in NC but are not a 'Carolina" boat, Grady White, Foutaion, Southern Skimmer, "Tara" was, "Hatteras" as well as many others but they are not, "Carolina" boats due to how they were built, even though they are built here in NC.

When a boat is popped out of a mold that is used over and over, that is not a "Carolina boat". Many other makers build the "Carolina" style and I am sure won't name the all, but from Jersey on down through Florida, "Carolina" style boats are built that are NOT popped out of a mold.

It is the method of how it is built more than the look...

A Ricky...

I have been to the spencer yards and there are way to many molds for such a carolina boat. All those buddy davis mold boats I have heard that No two were built the same and all run differently because of power placement and other items. Now I think wayne in NJ is doing a better job with the 36 and davis 44 45 then was ever done down there. Also what category do you put the citation built at Island boatworks on hatteras island in. That is a jim smith bottom with a carolina flair. There arer plenty of old purist that claim any boat not built of juniper plank is not a carolina boat.The argument is endless just like the variations on boats and so called carolina build or look or And this might piss a few off but what is the difference between a jig boat and a mold boat. they both are a way of duplicating the same boat. So whats so custom?

[Fritz]

I have been to the spencer yards and there are way to many molds for such a carolina boat. All those buddy davis mold boats I have heard that No two were built the same and all run differently because of power placement and other items. Now I think wayne in NJ is doing a better job with the 36 and davis 44 45 then was ever done down there. Also what category do you put the citation built at Island boatworks on hatteras island in. That is a jim smith bottom with a carolina flair. There arer plenty of old purist that claim any boat not built of juniper plank is not a carolina boat.The argument is endless just like the variations on boats and so called carolina build or look or And this might piss a few off but what is the difference between a jig boat and a mold boat. they both are a way of duplicating the same boat. So whats so custom?

I don't think the discussion was about what is a better boat, only what is a Carolina boat. Wayne builds an awesome boat- no doubt. I have been on the 44. The Buddy Davis boats built at the other NJ place, not so much. Personally if I had the cash to build a large custom, I would opt for a Mark Willis or American [both Florida boats for the neophyte]. Then again there is no arguing that the early Carolina boats [Warren O'Neill] were copied a bit off the Rybovich boats.

Isn't the cost of tooling [mold building] the thing that has driven the cold molded plywood & plank on frame boat building? Question for you Bly. With the advance of computer operated routers and systems like C-Flex, how much longer do you think people will be building plank or plywood cold molded boats?

[krazy8]

Originally Built In North Carolina

[clt_capt]

Isn't the cost of tooling [mold building] the thing that has driven the cold molded plywood & plank on frame boat building? Question for you Bly. With the advance of computer operated routers and systems like C-Flex, how much longer do you think people will be building plank or plywood cold molded boats?

Cold Molding has been around a lot longer than FRP (Fiber Reinforced Plastic) - and I suspect it will be around as long as there are small craftsman and trees... Same with Plank on Frame.

For small shops, there is no more efficient, cost effective method for building a boat.