shamrock hull problem...real bad !!

[DEEP DEFIANCE]

And Bo Palmer welcome to the site!

[kimswang]

Originally Posted by Henrique38

I don't own a Shamrock. Although the pictures are scary, I have to admitt it's pretty impressive the president of Shamrock is willing to post publically and face the situation.

+1. Keep up the good work!

[micky692002]

Part of the KCS (the one who built this boat) warranty was that their Shamrocks could not be in a roller trailer because it would make direct pressure on certain points of the hull. If the Shamrock was in a roller trailer this would void the warranty. However, they sold the boats on roller trailers. In one of the first pics you can see the rollers right next to where the structural problem ocurred.

[retainage]

Thanks for posting Bo, it's nice to hear 2 sides of a story.

[billh1963]

Originally Posted by micky692002

Part of the KCS (the one who built this boat) warranty was that their Shamrocks could not be in a roller trailer because it would make direct pressure on certain points of the hull. If the Shamrock was in a roller trailer this would void the warranty. However, they sold the boats on roller trailers. In one of the first pics you can see the rollers right next to where the structural problem ocurred.

Did the trailer come from Shamrock as part of the package or was the trailer supplied by the dealer? Most dealers just buy the hull and buy the trailers somewhere else.

[jawz12]

Originally Posted by bopalmer30

I rarely post in these forums, but on this occasion I must. Jimmy is very good at telling part of the story and his attempt to represent his efforts in "consumer advocacy" sounds noble. But here is the real story. I got a call from my girl in the office that was very upset after being verbally abused by a guy that owns a repair shop. She told me how rude he was and how badly he treated her. I was traveling on the East Coast and told her that I would check on it when I got back in town. After I got back to the factory the girls in the office all took me over to listen to an "obscene" message left on the answering machine from "the rude guy." P.S. we kept the recorded message. But I told myself that this guy is not the customer and I will overlook his rude and obnoxious behavior and give him a call. I called him and he filled me in on the situation and he told me of a problem with the boat. I told him that perhaps we could get the boat to the factory and have a look at it. He then told me that he was already well into the repairs and that the bill was estimated to be $9000. I told him that I wished that he had called me before he began such a major project. I informed him that although we did not build the boat, and it was outside of warranty we still wanted to try to help out. I told him that it would take me a little bit to get back to him as I was going to get with the plant manager and find out what it would have cost us to make the repairs. He wanted an answer from me right on the spot and I said I had to meet with the plant manager and talk with him to see what we could come up with. I told him that he was fixing the boat already and that it would have to fixed regardless and that we would get back to him, but I said " it will not be within a week" (he disputes this) He then called back today and said it has been a Week and you didn't call me back like you said you would. He would hardly let me speak, he kept telling me to stop talking and listen to him. I finally said, listen you are not doing your customer any service by treating my staff and me so poorly. We want to help out but yelling and screaming at me and my staff is not helping anything. He then started yelling again, said that I was an "F*****g a**hole and a piece of s**t. and that he was going to post this stuff on the internet and tell everyone not to buy our boats and hung up on me. I see up above that his vocabulary has not changed.

We try to take care of everyone that owns a boat with a Shamrock Logo on the side. We did not manufacture this boat, it is someone elses problem that we inherited, but we always try to do the right thing by our customers. Even though the company that did manufacture that boat (KCS International) gets off scott free in a situation like this, we still try to do the right thing and have fixed many issues that are out of warranty.

Jimmys marine service is obviously not a place to take your boat to get repaired. Jimmy, why didn't you call the factory before you were so far along in the repair that you needed to finish it. If you really were "just concerned about your customer" you would have called us on their behalf before you did the repair. Instead you wanted to be sure you were far enough along in the repair to "get your money" then you became the "Jimmy the Consumer Advocate"

If anyone would like I can put them in touch with the girls in my office who would be more than happy to tell you Jimmy went about "going to bat for his customer".

I do feel badly for the customer, I would not claim that we were perfect in our handling of this situation, and I STILL would be more than willing to try to work with the customer if he were to contact us. But as for Jimmy, before you have him call a factory on your behalf, call us and listen to the phone message he left. (You just might have better luck calling the Factory yourself.)

Bo Palmer
Pres.
Shamrock Boats

as usual,we've got some confusion here...just once it would be nice if people told the whole story,the way i did,you should learn this bo.rose,the person i spoke to in the first place,she got the message i left,message was,basiclally that i called the factory a few times,and have yet to get a return call,i was talking with someone else while i was leaving a message...i thought i hung the phone up,apparently i didn't...what i stated was correct,con cerning how your factory appears to be a "fly by night operation"...
now,as i stated,you told me 1 week,not 2 to 3 months..."get the money from the customer,wrong guy here pal,your company appears to want the money but refuses to service any problem,pretty clear huh ?? i know you didn't build this boat,but,the name of your company is on the side-guess that doesn't matter to you huh???
the boat had to be taken apart for inspection,since my x-ray eyes are in the shop for repair,i had to do some cutting...looks pretty bad in there huh ???
problem with the hull didn't come from the trailer,problem began when the boat was built...

and,yes i did call you a "f" ing a$$hole,and i did state the boat was a piece of $hit,both of what i stated are correct,in my opinion...it was quite clear you were giving me "lip service",you nor any of your employees or anyone at bladen composites ever had any intention of getting back to either myself or the owner of the boat,that is a fact,you actions showed it...wouid you wait 2 to 3 months on a decision from me??? no way...everything i typed here i would've rather stated to your face,it's clear you're not a man of your word,and it's clear your company is in it for the money only,customer service isn't one of the shamrock ways huh ???

if you're concerned about my shop,then why don't you call the owner of this boat,and make arrangements to pick it up,transport it to your factory then repair it??? how 'bout that??? that would show you actually care about the reputation of you company...i gave you the owner's number,you have his name too...here's your chance,show me you're not in it for just the money...you never stated you had wished i called before i began working on the boat,that's not true either-you really have a problem with the truth don't you ? the estimate was sent to jenifer at bladen composites,not you,you forgot that too huh ? you asked me on the phone how much it was to repair the boat,i told you,you stated,"that's a considerible amount of work,i know it's a big job.but my factory could do the job much cheaper".do you recall stating that ??

let me get back to the whole 2 to 3 months for an answer thing...you really think that's reasonable?? here's a scenerio,someone purchases one of your boats,has a problem with the structual integrity of the hull,you're gonna tell the owner he has to wait 2 to 3 months before he gets an answer on what you're gonna do ???? you call that customer service...what a joke...

again,you have the owner's name and number,why have you not contacted him ???i called the factory based upon what i seen,just like i stated previous.the boat had to be cut apart to gain access for inspection,i apologize for my not being able to see through fiberglass...

you mr palmer can call me what you wish,truth is,i'm a man of my word,you sir are not,i stated how i spoke with you on our first conversation,completley respectful and polite,you assured me you would get back to me in a week...i made this call because you didn't do what you said you would,you began being evasive and it was quite clear you had no intention of trying to resolve this manner,you were giving me lip service...i would've had at least a little respect for you if you had the nerve to state that you were not gonna do anything about this,you didn't,you made excuses and changed your story...i don't like being lied to,and i don't like when someone attempts to dominate the conversation,you're a pushy man,you have a habit of interupting people when they speak.you interupted me just about everytime i began speaking,you were trying to "talk me down",you were the one to begin beating up on me...you didn't like it when i explained to you,you were not telling the truth....after speaking with you,and seeing how you deal with a problem,i wouldn't purchase a shamrock on a bet,nor would i ever reccomend anyone purchase one...last time i checked,boats are not the best selling item on the planet,you would think that mabey,just mabey,you would realize a little customer service would go a long way...

[jawz12]

Originally Posted by Henrique38

I don't post often and I don't own a Shamrock. Although the pictures are scary, I have to admitt it's pretty impressive the president of Shamrock is willing to post publically and face the situation.

what would be impressive,would be for bo palmer to make a decision to either,agree to pay towards the repairs,or,make arangements to pick the boat up and repair it at the factory,that would be impressive,wouldn't you agree ???

[Mirage36]

I've done customer service work for 30 years and have never seen anything handled as bad as this before, and I'm not talking about the boat company.

[mymojo]

I'll throw in my own $.02 having owned 2 Shamrocks, a 22 wa and a 260 Express. I was very pleased with both boats and would still have one if they made a bigger boat which is what I was looking for when we sold the 260. Mr. Palmer had just purchased the Shamrock Company after several years of being owned (and most would agree neglected) from the previous owners, KCS Industries, when I was looking for the 'next boat'. He was dealing with many of the issues common to purchasing what could generously be called a company in decline and yet he found the time to contact me to determine my needs and see if there was a Shamrock that would suit me. At the time the 29' Express they offered was the closest fit and Mr. Palmer went to bat with a local dealer to put together what was then a spectacular deal for me. In the end the 29 was still too small for our needs so we passed on the deal. What I remember about all of this was that here was a man willing to go the extra mile to keep a customer happy and satisfied. SInce he purchased SHamrock he has gone out of his way to ask owners questions, solicit input and face old problems (created by previous ownership) as best he can all the while trying to manufacture and sell quality boats in what could best be described as a horrendous market. I for one am pleased he has purchased the Albin line of boats as they may be the next boat we look into. The interent is a wonderful thing but it sure has its limitations.

[budddavid]

Let's say a prospective boat owner walks into a dealership that carries Shamrock boats, he remembers the Shamrock that his father owned and the family enjoyed so much so he is drawn to them. He buys the boat and takes it home, what are the chances the dealership told him that his boat was not built to the same standards he associates with the brand? That company is trading on and benefiting from the brand's reputation. It is why they bought the name in the first place. Otherwise they would have started a new company from scratch with a entirely new name and all.

Boat companies change hands all of the time and in very different manors. Sometimes the boats remain the same but only management changes, sometimes the molds and company name is the only thing that remains the same and often it is only the name that remains unchanged. This is how business works but it is often very unclear and seemingly hidden from new boat owners and sometimes they end up getting taken for a ride.

So my question is, "If new ownership is willing to make sales based upon the reputation of this brand name (that they purchased) should they be willing to stand behind the lemons that may have been built and sold in the past?

This boat was clearly out of warrantee and whether they repair it or not is a manor of their business practices. Personally I believe that the lengths to which a company will go preserve its good name should be the measure of their quality. One the other hand I can see where the company could quickly go under if they had to spend 8K fixing every boat made during a period of time under old management, and if they decide to fix such problems they would want to do it themselves.