Need Solid Surveyor - Your .02?

[go boater]

Hello to all -

I'm going against my better judgement and accepting a surveyor referral from a boat broker with Bluewater Yacht Sales. The surveyor name is:


David R. Robotham
Robotham Marine Surveyors & Consultants, Inc.
Wrightsville Beach, NC

Doing my homework he is NAMS and SAMS certified and short of bringing my own trusted surveyor on an 8 hour car ride (each way) this surveyor seems reputable and experienced. Broker says he's one of the best in the business (but yeah, I heard that line of BS before)

GOOD, BAD or UGLY, is anyone familiar with Robotham? Do you have any other tips or advice in this situation?

Sounds funny, but seller is also agreeing to pay for survey - am I to expect that an "Accredited Surveyor" is going to be truthful and forthcoming of all issues regardless of "who" is paying his tab? Do I need to slip him $100 extra to give me inside scoop or pay him directly for a copy of survey even though broker is getting it?

Also, boat has 6-71's and hasn't been started in 9mos to a year. A mechanic is going to do the startup and I think we have a motor with a cracked ring on #1 cylinder. Broker says "$5K to fix one or $8K to fix 'em all... If it were my boat at the price you're getting, I'd run her as is... he says. Continues to say She's fine to run with no mechanical issues and only smokes a little on start-up..." FYI - an airleak was supposedly the culprit and has been fixed - or so we're told.

Thanks to all for your insight. I just put on my "Big Boy Pants" for the abuse I'll probrably get on this forum for using a broker's mechanic and surveyor. Desperate times call for desperate measures to sell a boat and I'm going in with eyes WIDE OPEN for fear that there's outside influence and also taking a buddy to help me check it out.

Sorry for double post on General Forum and Q&A. Working quickly and need your insight and opinions to avoid making a mistake!

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT!!!

[frankypettolina]

I am a surveyor, so i will offer some advice. First off, do NOT allow the seller to pay for the survey. No matter how honest the surveyor is, at that point the seller is his client, not you. he answers to the person that signs the front of the check.

Holding both NAMS and SAMS credentials means several things. Not only is he accredited with SAMS, he is a charter member of the organization. He has 20 plus years of experience. I don't know the man personally, but being certified with NAMS and Accredited with SAMS means he has undergone lots of continuing education, taken tests and had his reports reviewed by his peers.

I hear alot of people say that they are scared of a surveyor that the broker recommends. Every broker I know hands out a list of 3 or more surveyors. The broker may say that they like one better than the other or something like that. When dealing with a firm like Bluewater, I think you can feel a little better about a surveyor recommendation than if you were dealing with Billy Bob Boat sales who operates out of his car and has no history. Have you heard horror stories about Bluewater? i have not that I can think of. It is a good firm with offices up and down the east coast. I have gotten jobs because a broker recommended me, and i have also lost jobs because people thought I must be in the broker's pocket since he recommended me (personally I know a few broker's surveyors- they do exist- and for the record I am not one). I would recommend that you call Mr. Robothan and talk to him. See if you feel good about him after you talk to him. Ask him about what he does, and if you feel it necessary ask him for a reference or 2. If after that you don't feel good- go to www.marinesurvey.org and call some other surveyors.

As far as the 671's go, unless the block heaters have been on and it is warm out, they all smoke at start up. 8k to fix them all is on the light side price wise, the rule of thumb is 1500 per cylinder not counting head and turbo replacement- if necessary. I would definitely hire someone to inspect the engines- this is usually a separate person than the surveyor.

Hope this helps.

[WAHOONBOX]

COOL ADVICE FROM A PRO!

PRETTY WORK FP........

[Questsportfishing]

he is right it will be close to 1500 a hole .. 671's are still great motors so don't give up on them.. as for surveyours You buy your survey if you first like the boat ..IT IS yours to have n hold , make the deal with and is like a punch list from a qualified tech from pumps, electrical, plumbing, engines etc... If it is not yours it does not have to be disclosed at sale.. there is a great checklist made by david pasco or someone also you can print out.. makes sellers and brokers crazy when you have this thing sometimes.. but get on the boat .. LOOK everywhere.. take digital pics of everything you cannot see even under the floors and look at them.. know your boat .. engine #'s and be carefull with your $.. good luck..

[CaptD]

I would have to concur with Mr. Pettolina have done this several times and if you hire him he works for you. although most are honest fellows telling the truth can always be presented two ways...I would follow his advice..

[go boater]

Awesome feedback guys. Really appreciate it. Many good points are brought to light. I'm going to find and print out Pascoe's items tonight when I can get a few minutes of downtime.

Solid advice. Thank you.

[canyongear]

Hire a seperate engine surveyor..if not at least have an oil analysis done..ask the surveyor or call the local Detroit Diesel shop for a kit to take the samples with. If it was me I would make the P&S agreement subject an acceptable oil analysis.

[Lushes Too]

David Robotham just surveyed a boat for me in Wrightsville Beach and actually the boat is also listed with Bluewater. I chose David based on recommendations from others and his over 20 years experience. When I called him about doing the survey, he spent about 30 minutes explaining what I could expect from his survey and answering my questions. He actually was not one of the Broker recommended surveyors. I did not feel comfortable using the Broker's picks. I was happy with the job he did for me. He was very helpful and accommodating. He made two separate trips and spent between 8 to 9 hours on the boat doing the survey.

[cuppa]

David is a good surveyor. He did some work for me last year. I traveled down from ma, and we began to look the boat over and he basically told me to walk away that the boat was a nightmare.

He was a very knowledgeable guy, and very reasonable.

Looking back I probably would have bought it if it wasn't for him. I think he saved me a lot of money and agravation...

PM me with any questions.

Cuppa

[go boater]

So here's an update on how my survey panned / is panning out... Very frustrating and I've condensed the facts down for your reading pleasure.

To re-visit the facts:
-Listing broker w/ Bluewater provided surveyor reference for David Robotham and also worked to orchestrate survey dates when I'd be in town.

-I put forth what I thought was a fair due-diligence effort to check on Robotham's credentials and track record with other members here and on other web-based forums; all of which were positive and he is well-credentialed.

-Per broker, David was to show up on Tuesday morning but on Friday the week prior, David Robotham calls the broker to reschedule for Monday (even better for me), so broker called me and provided an update that we would survey the boat last Monday Morning 3/30 at 8am. So, I get in the car for an 8 hour drive (all night without sleep) to NC and as I'm arriving at 7:30am, broker advised by phone that David would be tied up Monday and not available until Tuesday at 11am. Fine, I'm annoyed, but can deal with it. Afterall, Tuesday is just a day away.

-To save time and work around yard schedule, David Robotham agrees to meet us at the boat at 11am when it is hauled, he shows on time. Within the first 30 seconds of the dialog and prior to doing any work, he states "We're going to need to do this tomorrow, I'm very tired and want to go home and sleep..." followed by something to the effect of "I just had eye surgery and have to wear these glasses and I can't see so well..." mind you the boat is hanging in the slings, I have cash in my pocket to pay for the survey and do my best to bite my tongue while wanting to fire him on the spot. Feeling out of options and out of time, I get him to agree to do the hull survey while it's in the sling and ask him to do the sea trial - he says NO to sea trial and restates he is tired so I let him go home.

-He agrees to do the rest of the survey on Wednesday, call me with any observations that are critical to the deal (i.e., necessary deal breakers) and then would "OVERNIGHT" the full survey report so it would be in my hands by 12 noon on Friday. Mind you, full survey was to include Sea Trial and him hooking up equipment to motors (which he selectively left at home on Tuesday - the day of survey)

-He calls on Wednesday while he is at home in the middle of the day to tell me some BS story about the seller not paying David in a timely fashion in the past and starts causing me concern about the deal not going through because he needed to be paid from the seller for other business and he was going to hold up my deal until he got paid first. He continues to call every few minutes for small insubstantial banter - nothing remotely critical (he told me he'd only call w/ a major deal-breaking issue), but whatever. About this time, I'm growing very suspicious that everyone is in eachother's pockets and it is a clique' of professionals that rely upon eachother (is the south still fighting the war?). The broker left town for a trip and I don't know that the Sea Trial ever happened with David Robotham on the boat. Despite my requests to email or fax the information, he promises again to overnight the survey report on Thursday. OH YEAH, WHILE I DIDN'T DIVULGE THAT I HAD A COPY OF THE LAST SURVEY REPORT (WHEN BOAT WAS PURCHASED BY SELLER IN 2007), I ALSO PROMPT DAVID TO LOOK FOR CERTAIN ISSUES THAT CAME UP WITH THE LAST SURVEYOR - - AND I'M TOLD (by broker) THEY WERE NEVER ADDRESSED, SO THEY SHOULD HAVE COME UP AGAIN - RIGHT??? ROBOTHAM REASSURES ME IN BETWEEN BITES OF HIS LUNCH THAT THERE'S NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT AND HE DIDN'T FIND ANY ISSUES.

-So Friday's mail comes and goes, no overnight package with my survey. I call David Robotham and leave two (2) messages; and I call the broker who Magically gets David to answer his phone. David only then calls me back to say he "priority mailed my package" on Thursday and I'd have it by Saturday at the latest. Priority mail has never been "overnight" - this guy's head is in the clouds!

-Saturday. Again, Nothing. Boat is due to be hauled for work on Monday and I need to make a final decision. I call David Robotham and tell him to fax me the report (he's now in Charleston until Sunday) and he state's he'll do it Sunday night. I circle back with broker who referred me to David Robotham and he says he finds it unsusual for David not to be on his game.

-Sunday. No Fax. I call in the evening and he tells me he's at home and won't forward it until Monday at around 11am. My problem is that I have a business to run during the business week and travel most of the time and therefore won't be in the office to receive his fax or review it until Monday night. Boat is due to be hauled tomorrow morning for work - under the premise that I'm going to accept it AS IS.

While he gave me a verbal green-light by phone, I don't feel confident in him and I don't have a survey in hand to feel good about the transaction. The agreed upon purchase price is fair, so do I risk proceeding with purchase? AND, do I pay the guy after he jammed me up and didn't deliver as promised and feeling in my gut that he didn't do a thorough job???

Moral of the story - Robotham's Reputation is worthless to me, he was unprofessional in scheduling and communicating. He didn't honor his word to get me the information I needed when he knew I was on a deadline and he committed to it. Now I'm out of time and having to make a decision to purchase the boat without a survey and with reasonable doubts as to whether he did a thorough job.

WTF???

LESSON LEARNED: I WILL TAKE MY OWN SURVEYOR AND FLY THEM TO SURVEY A BOAT BEFORE I EVER USE ANOTHER PROFESSIONAL THAT IS RECOMMENDED BY A BROKER. SURVEYOR'S CREDENTIALS SEEM WORTHLESS IF THE MAN CAN'T DELIVER ON HIS WORD.