Determining boat values

[seapower]

I don't know but we've had a flood of these boat's leave here, to part's unknown. My point is someone is buying them. The used market appeared better than the new market only last year. I hear from other's in different part's of the Country, that "re-power engine's and "new" engine sale's are jammin'. Now I haven't seen that to be so here, but we here are generally on the "end" of the loop anyhow.
I got one for you to figure out, here; I've got a customer that has had his "high end pilot house sailboat" for year's, he just got done riggin' this thing to the hilt. Before he started riggin' it up he put it on the market, just for grin's (you know, no one's buying, right?). He load's the boat up with all the latest electronic's, just because. When he put the boat up with the dealer, he set the price "above" retail. His reasoning was that he was gearing it up for "his" great trip to the Island's and if someone wanted it, they'd have to want it really bad!!! Well guess what I found out yesterday, it sold for 94% of the asking price!!!!!! Go figure. People and boat's, you can't make sense out of it! Truth, Frank

[frankypettolina]

For once, and maybe only this once, I agree with Hubris. Banks and surveyors are very aware that book values are not working right now.

For my first 12 years of surveying book values were close- Abos was low on big boats, spot on for small boats. BUC was high for almost everything- banks would only loan on and insurance companies only insure on 80% of BUC value. NADA was great for bass boats and stuff like that- and very valuable for trailers. The Powerboat Guide was nifty for boat stats and new boat prices.

NOW, lets talk about the last 3 years... Throw the books out the window for anything but stats. The books gather data 6 to 12 months prior to their publishing. We all know that prices have consistently plummetted over the past 6 months, and the 6 months prior to that and so on for the past 3 years.

SO, how does Franky Pettolina determine values for banks and insurance companies in this day and age??? I go to Yachtworld and see what is for sale (comparables) then I use my network of yacht broker associates to see how the trending has been, and I also use my subscription to soldboats.com to check what has sold in the past 6 to 18 months. I adjust the value of said boat to match the trends and values of the comparables (using condition, equipment, etc etc etc). It can be a little complicated.

interesting discussion

[Mike15]

I think going to yachtworld to determine the value of a boat is mindless. Hopefully you mean you are looking at actual comp sales and not listing prices.

There is a 52 Ricky Scarborough that has been listed on yachtworld for the past 10 years. 10 years! And get this - the listing price has never changed!

needless to say it is still for sale.

[BLZ72]

I am looking at 26-29 foot walkarounds. how do I get on soldboats.com?

[hubris 1]

I am looking at 26-29 foot walkarounds. how do I get on soldboats.com?

Thats the secret of the industry. One needs to be a broker to access that info. Buyers just need to keep their ear to the ground and listen.........very carefully.


Franky, Im flattered.

[BLZ72]

thats kinda what I figured.... never hurts to ask.

[frankypettolina]

I look at Yachtworld to see the trending of current boats for sale. I then compare that to recently sold boats from personal experience and resources like soldboats.com

you have to use whats available, and yachtworld is another tool in the box. For example, if the asking price is out of line with the other comparables (ie the Ricky that has not sold in 10 years) then odds are the accepted offer may be high by the current market standard. Remember there is a boat out there for everyone, and sometimes a buyer falls in love with a boat that is way over priced compared to the market. I have to explain this to the buyer and show him why- if he still choses to buy it, so be it, but I did my job.

And Alex- surveyors are allowed to subscribe to soldboats too.

[hubris 1]

Frank, I didnt know that. In fact most brokers keep it as a secret. If they sell a boat for more than others have sold for I have seen them try to steer the surveyor into the deal. Easier done on factory style boats Im sure. I have also seen a boat that sold for 120,000 dollars and the surveyor wouldnt put a price above 83,000 on the boat. The guy finally let it go for that. Imagine that, the broker got 120 and the surveyor ruined it. It was a 1976 post I believe.

[frankypettolina]

Did the surveyor ruin it for the broker? or make it right for the buyer? or is the truth in the middle? All depends on the deal.

THe one thing you have to remember about soldboats is that it is based on what the broker puts in it. I actually "tested" it when it was first made available to surveyors and called friends to see what their boats sold for to see if it was accurate. about 90% of the time it was spot on. Every now and then you have to throw one away. (ie the boat that sold for asking price, or 98% of it)

I am pretty hardnosed on the values that I put on boats. In 15 years I have adjusted survey value only a few times, and only in cases where I was proven wrong in my thinking. I then write an addendum letter to the survey stating why I was mistaken in my original value- (ie age of engines or engine hours were misrepresented, or HP of engines was misrepresented, or whatever led me to value the boat on the low end). Most times the adjustment is small.

[Questsportfishing]

You never know what you will get when hubris starts up but usually he is right...

we just got back from a sea trial and seeing a very well kept Post 50.. she actually is a bunch more affordable than a Viking in so many ways when you consider room, draft, fuel burn, engine hours etc and the $ was about 150-178k less expensive than the same size year hatt. also and way less hours!

finding a good boat now days that is cared for and properly kept is a job!

this rig burns around 50-54 an hour where others burn 58-64 and even some that are just a little bigger burn 100-125 an hour... talk about tossing $ out the window for whos who on the name brand sometimes is a little stupid in my book. a good build is something that makes anyone smile. You are right though so many of these boats are going to be sitting a long time. The survey guy told me though that there is a bottom feeder (sucker) born every day though..
our boat was just over 400k.. that is a long way from the 980k she went for new. 632 hrs 710 genset.. well kept also..
looked at some with lots of hours and poorly kept.. it was a scary ride till this one!