BorgWarner Transmission failure?

[T380Fisher]

O.K. I could use some helpful suggestions. Last week we were heading to O.C. MD for a couple of days vacation when 10 miles outside CM Bell, my starboard engine went to about 5,500 rpm (she's got gas, Crusader 454's) and I immediately backed off both engines. I thought maybe I lost a prop, but not the case.

Definitely either the tranny or the clutch plate let go. Here is where I need a little help. I have never had one go before and would like to know what the symptoms are? When I shift from neutral to either forward or reverse, the shaft spins about 1 revolution, then nothing. Fluids were checked and fine before I left the dock and are still fine. The trans is a BW 2.57:1 model 10-18-010

Are there any precautions (ie engine/trans alignment) I should be aware of as I intend to try to pull the tranny before this summer is over? or is anybody local to Wildwood that may be able to diagnose and give an estimate for repair?

[captgator]

Sounds like the pump wentbad to me,they usually dont go out in forward and reverse if it was worn clutches,I beleive the rebuild kits are 200-300 bucks for everything,if you pull it yourself I wouldnt think getting it rebuilt would be more then 700-1000 bucks,you will need check and maybe redo your alignment when you put it back in,are you sure the fluid is topped off?

[Questsportfishing]

re-building yours is going to get expensive.

[seapower]

Is your oil running too hot (fouled cooler).Valve could be sticking open. If it were the drive plate you would hear it. You're more than likely gonna have to break it down, may as well rebuild it while it's in your hands. And re-build mean's re-build. Your transmission is nothing more than a closed hydraulic system, any trash goes through the entire system. It is all contaminated, cooler and lines as-well. Won't know how much until you break it down and inspect it. Frank

[seapower]

Check your pressure regulating valve to make sure that it is not sticking partially open (this will allow it to dump oil to the sump instead of to the clutch pack's). Remove and check the pressure regulating valve spring. It should be rigid. I have seen them get weak, break and cause your problem aswell. I know you checked the oil level, right? Had to ask, you'd be suprised! Frank

[T380Fisher]

Thanks Frank, Yes I checked the fluids...I put that in my post, but I know you had to ask. I am surprised at how many people don't check before going out.....but I did.

My trans cooler went bad on this engine about 3 years ago and was replaced. I was really lucky then as it happened at startup at the dock. In this case, I'm pretty sure it had good flow when I had the failure. On my engines, the trans/engine oil cooler is the first thing in line after the raw water pump. If that gets clogged, the engine gets no water. (Also, I put my hand on the in and out side as one of my initial checks as I was trying to get going offshore and the outflow side was not as cool as in, but it was not extremely hot). However, I'll inspect it further before pulling the trans. I tried the trans again at the dock the next day with cool fluids and it acted the same.

If it is the pump, can that be done without pulling the trans? If it did go and starved the clutches of oil...are they shot? and is rebuild my only answer?
Thanks for the other advise....I'll check the valve spring on Saturday. Really hoping I don't have to pull it...but sounds like I will.

[seapower]

It's had to say because I'm not there. But I'd check the plunger and spring on the pressure regulating valve first. When you get it apart see if the plunger will slide in the bore smoothly, with out hanging up at all. When you get it apart use only very clean rag's, look for little spec's of metal (shiny). It doesn't take much at all to hang one up. Check to see if your fluid is still that bright red color (you are using ATF right?). If it is brownish and has a burnt smell to it, it probably got hot, oil cooler. Remove the inlet hose of your transmission cooler and just verify that there is not an obstruction. The run you made before the failure makes me think about heat. Take a telescoping magnet and run it to the bottom of your sump (run it down the dipstick port) and see if you have "trash" (clutch and metal pieces) in there. If you come back with a clean magnet, you may have dodged a bullet. Then I'd go back to my previous check on the regulator valve. If you have trash in the sump the oil filter screen may be blocked with debris and you know the rest of the story. One other thing, I've seen the hydraulic hoses delaminate on the inside causing a restriction in flow, allowing the oil to heat up. As mentioned before, you could have a pump failure, but in my experience that is a graduall failure on these gear's. Not saying it couldn't be, anything is possible. I don't know how many hour's you have on this gear, but they generally give little trouble. Most of the time a failure was caused by an outside source. Frank

[fishfighter]

Do a google for aftermarket marine parts. There is a place in New Orleans that sells rebuilding kits very cheap.
If you plan on rebuilding it,everything must be very clean. Other then that,it is not hard to do.

If the oil doesn't stink bad and there are no shaving in the sump,it could be the releif spring broke. If it is not that,you could of snap the shaft inside the tranny.

[Judith A]

seapower is right first thing you should check is the regulator valve. I had one the other week on a friends boat that also had a cooler falure the previous year and it caused small amount of rust in the bore and the valve was binding.
We went ahead and rebuilt it anyway to make sure since he had already taken it out,and I got the kit from Transtar in edison NJ for 95.00 bucks.
Mark

[T380Fisher]

To update...it's gonna need to be rebuilt.

No Clogs found. Oil looks good. It has 135 lbs pressure at the reverse pump test plug. (no test plug for forward) diagnosis....broken shaft or gear inside. We can hear the clutches engage in forward & reverse, but the output shaft doesn't spin at all now.

I can still do a lot of fishing on the boat next to me (as long as these Storms stop hitting us over the weekends), so I'm going to wait until the winter to pull the trans and change the cooler and lines as well.

A big Thank you everyone for your input.