Another C80 glitch

reelfishin · 01-26-2009, 08:49 AM

When we are trolling our C80 Raymarine chart plotter will freeze up now and then. We have to stop the engine and restart the engine to get it to come back on. Just turning it off and back on does not do it all the time. I wonder if this is due to loss of signal or something else.

Sterling · 01-26-2009, 09:27 AM

This is happening on my E80 with increasing frequency. Do you have a seperate power switch or breaker for the DSM300 only? If so, I've found that killing power to the DSM300 and bringing it back up fixes it, for a while. I'm not certain that powering off your C80 will actually fully reboot the DSM300. I have been through many DSM300's for various reasons and have had this issue with the last 2. Might be coincidence but it seems to happen more often in the fall, when it's colder.

reelfishin · 01-26-2009, 09:33 AM

I haven't tried to run it down yet. The installer does not know so I will be checking to see how it was installed and see if I can find something that I feel could cause the problem.
I am wonder if it is loss of signal due to bad connection or a voltage glich. I will be looking to se what it could be.

Sterling · 01-26-2009, 09:46 AM

Please keep us posted on what you find out.

misokat · 01-26-2009, 11:04 AM

Sounds like low voltage to me, seen it alot on c and e series units, all it takes is a little power dip and unit goes off/and or locks up, be sure your running a separate battery for you house electronics and running a good filter on the power side wont hurt either, also make sure your iron ferrites (little round plastic things on on the cables they came with) 9/10 units i see or work on all relate to power /ground issues.

Free Spirit · 01-26-2009, 02:57 PM

It is usually not low voltage but rather low amperage. Think of voltage as water in a hose and amperage as the amount of pressure behind that water that makes it move when the nozzle is opened. !2 volts on a voltmeter does not mean a lot as far as amperage goes . Remember that you can get 12 volts from 8 d cell batteries but they will not run your electronics. If you start up, then run the engine for a short time to a spot, and drift or say anchor for a while, then start up and make a move and repeat the process, and finally run home for a short time, the engine alternator, which may charge at say 50 amps, but only when running at a higher RPM can never catch up with the amount of power that was drawn down. The output of the alternators on most boats at trolling speeds is a lot lower than at peak output. So we have a situation where the startup of the engines repeatedly, which draw a load of juice to start, coupled with the units running at all times drops the amperage down. Do this a couple of days say on the weekend and then leave the boat without a full charge till next week, the problem compounds itself until finally, the battery amperage drops below a certain level and the 1st sign is the failure or blink of the DSM ( which when searching draws 5-8 amps) which makes the FF appear to malfunction and you get a no data message. First thing to do is check the size of the wires supplying power to the units and be sure that they are no smaller than 12 ga and check the age of your electronics batteries. Also, check the water level in them if they are not sealed. Clean all the contacts and cable points and be sure that the connections are as tight as posible, then spray the terminals with a sealer designed to keep corrosion down. It would be a good idea to have the batteries load tested which tells you how they will react when all your stuff is turned on and working. This problem happens most on boats that are not plugged into dockside power with an on-board battery charger between trips. If this doesn't solve the problem, send it in to Raymarine and they will go over the unit and make sure it is OK. I run 3 e-series on my boat and several years ago, I was not able to plug in at the dock between trips. I would run 20 minutes, sit on anchor for drum or stripers, and run home 20 minutes, sometimes using the radar, as well as the other features. Within 3 days, the amperage on my Deep cycle 4-d batteries dropped so low that he screen would blink, the dsm would quit, and my radar would not function. Plugged in and all has been well since then. Other guys I have spoken with just get a little portable charger every now and then overnight and let it boost up the amperage in the batteries. No more problems. Truthfully, the greatest percentage of problems are low amperage.

misokat · 01-26-2009, 04:44 PM

I was trying to keep it simple, lol but yes agree with you.Most people i deal with or do work for , cant fathom or could care less how it works ,they just want it fixed.
But Good explanation ........

Andaman Andy · 01-26-2009, 09:35 PM

Agree with "Free Spirit" we had a similar problem and it was down to a combination of Loose alternator belt and some worn out batteries on the house side.
Also if you have Auto pilot could be down to wiring.

reelfishin · 01-26-2009, 09:42 PM

I agree with the amperage compared to voltage, But if the voltage does drop so does the amperage.
We do run a generator that while out and it does run a 120 volt charger. I have not checked to see if it is a smart charger to find out if it charges while the engine runs or not. We generally are trolling when the problem occurs. As for starting the engines, once started they run all day long. Now like you said maybe over the day at idle I have a problem, I shall find out. I do believe it is a amperage problem or low voltage. The batteries are not that old and they are plenty big enough to handle the load. Water is ok , I keep them filled to the proper level. As for connections and wire size that is something I will have to look at. I was not there when the C80 was installed so I will have to do some looking to see how the did it. I am not a parts changer, I prove what is wrong before changing a part. Thanks for all the good advise.

Free Spirit · 01-27-2009, 06:53 PM

If you are pretty sure that all is well with the installation, send the DSM and display back to Raymarine and let them check it out.

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01-26-2009, 09:27 AM	#2
Sterling I think Admin is going to let me have this space Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cape May Posts: 1,096 Credits: 2,228.7 Boat: Tiara 3100 Home Port: Cape May, NJ Best Catch: Always looking for it Occupation: IT Management Consulting, IT Infrastructure Services, Internet	This is happening on my E80 with increasing frequency. Do you have a seperate power switch or breaker for the DSM300 only? If so, I've found that killing power to the DSM300 and bringing it back up fixes it, for a while. I'm not certain that powering off your C80 will actually fully reboot the DSM300. I have been through many DSM300's for various reasons and have had this issue with the last 2. Might be coincidence but it seems to happen more often in the fall, when it's colder.

01-26-2009, 09:33 AM	#3
reelfishin Weaky wacker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Hampton, VA. Posts: 27 Credits: 1,546.4 Boat: 11 meter Trojan international Home Port: Hampton	I haven't tried to run it down yet. The installer does not know so I will be checking to see how it was installed and see if I can find something that I feel could cause the problem. I am wonder if it is loss of signal due to bad connection or a voltage glich. I will be looking to se what it could be.

01-26-2009, 09:46 AM	#4
Sterling I think Admin is going to let me have this space Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cape May Posts: 1,096 Credits: 2,228.7 Boat: Tiara 3100 Home Port: Cape May, NJ Best Catch: Always looking for it Occupation: IT Management Consulting, IT Infrastructure Services, Internet	Please keep us posted on what you find out.

01-26-2009, 11:04 AM	#5
misokat I use a green machine Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Waretown NJ Posts: 211 Credits: 1,819.2 Boat: Blue Max 28 Henriques Best Catch: my motley crew Occupation: Official Tequilla Taster	Sounds like low voltage to me, seen it alot on c and e series units, all it takes is a little power dip and unit goes off/and or locks up, be sure your running a separate battery for you house electronics and running a good filter on the power side wont hurt either, also make sure your iron ferrites (little round plastic things on on the cables they came with) 9/10 units i see or work on all relate to power /ground issues.

01-26-2009, 02:57 PM	#6
Free Spirit Got fish Join Date: May 2005 Location: Egg Harbor Twp Posts: 196 Credits: 1,579.0 Boat: Free Spirit Home Port: Margate and Cape May Occupation: charter captain	It is usually not low voltage but rather low amperage. Think of voltage as water in a hose and amperage as the amount of pressure behind that water that makes it move when the nozzle is opened. !2 volts on a voltmeter does not mean a lot as far as amperage goes . Remember that you can get 12 volts from 8 d cell batteries but they will not run your electronics. If you start up, then run the engine for a short time to a spot, and drift or say anchor for a while, then start up and make a move and repeat the process, and finally run home for a short time, the engine alternator, which may charge at say 50 amps, but only when running at a higher RPM can never catch up with the amount of power that was drawn down. The output of the alternators on most boats at trolling speeds is a lot lower than at peak output. So we have a situation where the startup of the engines repeatedly, which draw a load of juice to start, coupled with the units running at all times drops the amperage down. Do this a couple of days say on the weekend and then leave the boat without a full charge till next week, the problem compounds itself until finally, the battery amperage drops below a certain level and the 1st sign is the failure or blink of the DSM ( which when searching draws 5-8 amps) which makes the FF appear to malfunction and you get a no data message. First thing to do is check the size of the wires supplying power to the units and be sure that they are no smaller than 12 ga and check the age of your electronics batteries. Also, check the water level in them if they are not sealed. Clean all the contacts and cable points and be sure that the connections are as tight as posible, then spray the terminals with a sealer designed to keep corrosion down. It would be a good idea to have the batteries load tested which tells you how they will react when all your stuff is turned on and working. This problem happens most on boats that are not plugged into dockside power with an on-board battery charger between trips. If this doesn't solve the problem, send it in to Raymarine and they will go over the unit and make sure it is OK. I run 3 e-series on my boat and several years ago, I was not able to plug in at the dock between trips. I would run 20 minutes, sit on anchor for drum or stripers, and run home 20 minutes, sometimes using the radar, as well as the other features. Within 3 days, the amperage on my Deep cycle 4-d batteries dropped so low that he screen would blink, the dsm would quit, and my radar would not function. Plugged in and all has been well since then. Other guys I have spoken with just get a little portable charger every now and then overnight and let it boost up the amperage in the batteries. No more problems. Truthfully, the greatest percentage of problems are low amperage.

01-26-2009, 04:44 PM	#7
misokat I use a green machine Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Waretown NJ Posts: 211 Credits: 1,819.2 Boat: Blue Max 28 Henriques Best Catch: my motley crew Occupation: Official Tequilla Taster	I was trying to keep it simple, lol but yes agree with you.Most people i deal with or do work for , cant fathom or could care less how it works ,they just want it fixed. But Good explanation ........

01-26-2009, 09:35 PM	#8
Andaman Andy Crab mustard is good Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Phuket Thailand Posts: 629 Credits: 2,120.8 Home Port: Chalong Bay, Phuket, Thailand. Occupation: Fishing Guide	Agree with "Free Spirit" we had a similar problem and it was down to a combination of Loose alternator belt and some worn out batteries on the house side. Also if you have Auto pilot could be down to wiring.

01-26-2009, 09:42 PM	#9
reelfishin Weaky wacker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Hampton, VA. Posts: 27 Credits: 1,546.4 Boat: 11 meter Trojan international Home Port: Hampton	I agree with the amperage compared to voltage, But if the voltage does drop so does the amperage. We do run a generator that while out and it does run a 120 volt charger. I have not checked to see if it is a smart charger to find out if it charges while the engine runs or not. We generally are trolling when the problem occurs. As for starting the engines, once started they run all day long. Now like you said maybe over the day at idle I have a problem, I shall find out. I do believe it is a amperage problem or low voltage. The batteries are not that old and they are plenty big enough to handle the load. Water is ok , I keep them filled to the proper level. As for connections and wire size that is something I will have to look at. I was not there when the C80 was installed so I will have to do some looking to see how the did it. I am not a parts changer, I prove what is wrong before changing a part. Thanks for all the good advise.

01-27-2009, 06:53 PM	#10
Free Spirit Got fish Join Date: May 2005 Location: Egg Harbor Twp Posts: 196 Credits: 1,579.0 Boat: Free Spirit Home Port: Margate and Cape May Occupation: charter captain	If you are pretty sure that all is well with the installation, send the DSM and display back to Raymarine and let them check it out.