Why wind on leader?

[hass]

i am in the process of making my own wind on leaders.

i am using 165# momoi leader material and 165# hollow braid. I shortened the leaders on my lures to 3 feet and i was looking at the whole rig and wondered why i needed the wind on leader anyways? This particular rig is a TLD30, i have momoi 30# line on the spool. I like the idea of having tension on the rod while i handle the fish, instead of me having to wire the fish as well since we are always shorthanded, but couldn't i just do that with a shorter mono leader on the lure to the doubled momoi line/snap wivel? and skip the whole hollow braided line spliced to leader part? What am i missing here?

[sportfishingusa]

this is a good question and you should get a ton of response....this is my two cents...

the wind on leader is for allowing a stronger leader connection to the end of your line..

you do not want to make your leaders shorter.. you want to use longer leaders and also want to run with the lightest terminal tackle you can get away with..

for instand you can run lets say 150lb hollow spectra.. then you can add your 130 lb monofilament to the end of it.. run that directly thru your lure and connect to your hook!!

you got less crimps to get in the way and to fail! it will also allow you to have a ton more backing when you get into a big fish..

trolling offshore and you have a large billfish or even a very large tuna for that matter can make an initial run and if you can not stop the fish or chase it down you want to have a ton of line to be able to keep that fish buttoned up and on the end of that line..

so lets say you have a 50wide.. you can spool it with 500yds of 60lb mono and then add your 6ft trolling leader.. not you got the main line tied to a snap swivel.. (1 failure point) expecially when it is having high strain from a fish up and down.. then you have that attached to your leader which goes to the hoo on the other end of the lure... now this has either a protective thimble, ring, or it might even be my favorite a offshore loop.. they are strong.. but once again it gives you another fail point..

fail point #2 where the snap lock snaps.. it could twist, bend and even come open or never be shut by a new crew member or it can be forgotten in the heat of the moment..

then you got another crimp on your leader line.. possible fail point number 3!!

now if you run your standard wind on leader you have you same 50w... you spool it with 130lb hollowcore and get 800 yards!!!! that is 900 more feet of backing line.. you slap on another 100 yards of 130lb monofilament top shop/wind on and you not have double the line strenght and double the amount of line capacity..

one you run you wind/on down you can connect it directly thru your hook and tie it, snell it or crimp it.. depending on what your trolling..

if you are trolling lures with ballyhoo you just run the leader thru the lure head as usual and crimp around the hook. if you want to run a regular lure you can add beads or whatever kind of hook set you choose to make it run true and also make it run without a bait!!

this will allow you to have nothing but one possible fail point which would be the crimp at the hook behind the skirt of the lure head.. the chances of that failing are not very high and also the chances of your wind on connection coming apart is also very slim....

you can do it with a loop to loop, you can do a loop to a swivel to a crimp on the other end of the windon.. either way you will find a great different in having a bunch of terminal junk dragging in the water 8-15 ft in front of your lure compared to having nothing!!

hope that helps and hope it makes sense. lol

[hobie2]

this is a good question and you should get a ton of response....this is my two cents...

the wind on leader is for allowing a stronger leader connection to the end of your line..

you do not want to make your leaders shorter.. you want to use longer leaders and also want to run with the lightest terminal tackle you can get away with..

for instand you can run lets say 150lb hollow spectra.. then you can add your 130 lb monofilament to the end of it.. run that directly thru your lure and connect to your hook!!

you got less crimps to get in the way and to fail! it will also allow you to have a ton more backing when you get into a big fish..

trolling offshore and you have a large billfish or even a very large tuna for that matter can make an initial run and if you can not stop the fish or chase it down you want to have a ton of line to be able to keep that fish buttoned up and on the end of that line..

so lets say you have a 50wide.. you can spool it with 500yds of 60lb mono and then add your 6ft trolling leader.. not you got the main line tied to a snap swivel.. (1 failure point) expecially when it is having high strain from a fish up and down.. then you have that attached to your leader which goes to the hoo on the other end of the lure... now this has either a protective thimble, ring, or it might even be my favorite a offshore loop.. they are strong.. but once again it gives you another fail point..

fail point #2 where the snap lock snaps.. it could twist, bend and even come open or never be shut by a new crew member or it can be forgotten in the heat of the moment..

then you got another crimp on your leader line.. possible fail point number 3!!

now if you run your standard wind on leader you have you same 50w... you spool it with 130lb hollowcore and get 800 yards!!!! that is 900 more feet of backing line.. you slap on another 100 yards of 130lb monofilament top shop/wind on and you not have double the line strenght and double the amount of line capacity..

one you run you wind/on down you can connect it directly thru your hook and tie it, snell it or crimp it.. depending on what your trolling..

if you are trolling lures with ballyhoo you just run the leader thru the lure head as usual and crimp around the hook. if you want to run a regular lure you can add beads or whatever kind of hook set you choose to make it run true and also make it run without a bait!!

this will allow you to have nothing but one possible fail point which would be the crimp at the hook behind the skirt of the lure head.. the chances of that failing are not very high and also the chances of your wind on connection coming apart is also very slim....

you can do it with a loop to loop, you can do a loop to a swivel to a crimp on the other end of the windon.. either way you will find a great different in having a bunch of terminal junk dragging in the water 8-15 ft in front of your lure compared to having nothing!!

hope that helps and hope it makes sense. lol

sportfishingusa-
i just want to clarify to compare to my setup. so from your backing, you tie loop to loop to the windon and directly to the ballyhoo? do you ever use a windon swivel at the end of your windon leader to stop line twist?

[waynofish]

If using that pound leader to 30, yes, go for the braid, or dacron is what I like---in a lower pound test. I would always use 150 into 100 or 130 int 80 dacron for a loop to loop connection to my bimini. For 100 or less I skip the dacron and tie a knot to the double.
The purpose of a wind on is it can give you more control at boatside without having the slack accompaning a standard "old school" long leader. I still like to leader (or more correctly guide) the fish to the gaff. I can still guide a fish to keep a dolphins head in the water or keep a tunas head from getting downward with a wind-on but the angler is keeping the line tought as I still finger tip and guide the fish with the leader. Now you still have a long leader for boatside handling, but you have shorter "trace" sections (usually 6 to 10') for easier storage of multiple rigs. Those will either have a small loop for snapping to a snap swivel or just be crimped to a snapless swivel for heavier applications. Of course for pure tuna fishing comes another type of "crank-on" alltogether.
On a safety note of heavy wind-ons. How I was stating you are assisting the angler and guiding the fish in the last few yards, therefore the angler keeps cranking as you guide the fish to gaff using your fingers. "Don't take any wraps using this method with heavy tackle as the line won't come off your hand if tight".

[sportfishingusa]

sportfishingusa-
i just want to clarify to compare to my setup. so from your backing, you tie loop to loop to the windon and directly to the ballyhoo? do you ever use a windon swivel at the end of your windon leader to stop line twist?

you know. i never really gave to much thought to the line twisting problem.. never really had the issue.. mostly i use a spro or tsunami swivel to prevent it like you said.. if i am using 100 yard of line i usually dont let more than that out on a long rigger...

so most of the time it is still on the spool.. but occasional on my reels i use a shorter amount of windon.. like 50 yards..

you can contact basil a bhp tackle.. he is known for his products and is an amazing dude to speak with..

[hass]

I fish the southern gulf of mexico and i have been taught to troll lures all day, which means we're changing baits/ballyhoo and lures. when we see tuna jump we chunk bait but its uncommon down here unfortunately, 95% of our hookups are on the troll.
1. how would i rig up my windon leader to were i can change lures often and quickly? if i have to cut the mono leader, slide of the lure and recrimp the hook to change skirts everytime? i like the idea of less stuff in the water.

2. if i left my lures on leaders and had a snap swivel at the end of the windon, will that work? do i lose the "natural presentation"? because obviously i have snaps and crimps in front of the bait?
a. how long should my leaders on my lures be?
b. how long should the windon be?

i get the safety side of it, guiding the fish to the boat is easier with heavier mono than say doubled line from your bimini twist.

if the offshore loop a spider hitch? i like this knot better then the bimini because honestly i cant tie a bimini effectively.

to sum up my questions?
i troll all the time, i change lures often, what is the optimum windon set up for me? am i negating the effects of a windon by attaching lures with crimps and swivels at the end of it?

i think i may be, because i have been right next to boats nailing fish and we have not at times, so im wondering if im scaring them away with all my connections?

thanks very much for your insight.

[Fortunamate]

this is a good question and you should get a ton of response....this is my two cents...

the wind on leader is for allowing a stronger leader connection to the end of your line..

you do not want to make your leaders shorter.. you want to use longer leaders and also want to run with the lightest terminal tackle you can get away with..

for instand you can run lets say 150lb hollow spectra.. then you can add your 130 lb monofilament to the end of it.. run that directly thru your lure and connect to your hook!!

you got less crimps to get in the way and to fail! it will also allow you to have a ton more backing when you get into a big fish..

trolling offshore and you have a large billfish or even a very large tuna for that matter can make an initial run and if you can not stop the fish or chase it down you want to have a ton of line to be able to keep that fish buttoned up and on the end of that line..

so lets say you have a 50wide.. you can spool it with 500yds of 60lb mono and then add your 6ft trolling leader.. not you got the main line tied to a snap swivel.. (1 failure point) expecially when it is having high strain from a fish up and down.. then you have that attached to your leader which goes to the hoo on the other end of the lure... now this has either a protective thimble, ring, or it might even be my favorite a offshore loop.. they are strong.. but once again it gives you another fail point..

fail point #2 where the snap lock snaps.. it could twist, bend and even come open or never be shut by a new crew member or it can be forgotten in the heat of the moment..

then you got another crimp on your leader line.. possible fail point number 3!!

now if you run your standard wind on leader you have you same 50w... you spool it with 130lb hollowcore and get 800 yards!!!! that is 900 more feet of backing line.. you slap on another 100 yards of 130lb monofilament top shop/wind on and you not have double the line strenght and double the amount of line capacity..

one you run you wind/on down you can connect it directly thru your hook and tie it, snell it or crimp it.. depending on what your trolling..

if you are trolling lures with ballyhoo you just run the leader thru the lure head as usual and crimp around the hook. if you want to run a regular lure you can add beads or whatever kind of hook set you choose to make it run true and also make it run without a bait!!

this will allow you to have nothing but one possible fail point which would be the crimp at the hook behind the skirt of the lure head.. the chances of that failing are not very high and also the chances of your wind on connection coming apart is also very slim....

you can do it with a loop to loop, you can do a loop to a swivel to a crimp on the other end of the windon.. either way you will find a great different in having a bunch of terminal junk dragging in the water 8-15 ft in front of your lure compared to having nothing!!

hope that helps and hope it makes sense. lol

my two cents is that since we use a 10 ft leader it makes it a little bit easier when the fish is at the boat because the angler can keep realing exspecially so u dont have to leader it you can real and get it close enough to stick or fly gaff/tail rope whatever you do with a big boy

[waynofish]

Lighter stuff up to about 150 I use 6' "trace" sections (leaders) which I clip to the snap swivel on the end of a 23' wind on. For heavier tackle I use a longer "trace" section of 9' that I crimp (no need to worry about a snap breaking) onto my 20 foot wind on. Now you have a 29' leader which can give extra protection for boat side surges and let you guide the fish to the gaff for better control if you like, but you only have 6 - 9' of leader past the swivel. So yes, all my wind ons have a snap swivel or just a swivel for heavy apps crimped to the end. Easy lure/bait changes. I use a bimini but a lot do use the spider for 30lb, so no problem there either.
Those are the length's I use for billfishing and general trolling with dink rigs and heavier baits/lures. Alter length's however you feel necessary for your application. But in tourneys with IGFA rules the wind on/leader can't be longer then 30' for 30lb and up.

[Patudo]

I shortened the leaders on my lures to 3 feet and i was looking at the whole rig and wondered why i needed the wind on leader anyways? This particular rig is a TLD30, i have momoi 30# line on the spool. I like the idea of having tension on the rod while i handle the fish, instead of me having to wire the fish as well since we are always shorthanded, but couldn't i just do that with a shorter mono leader on the lure to the doubled momoi line/snap wivel? and skip the whole hollow braided line spliced to leader part? What am i missing here?

The windon leader is needed for two reasons (1) most importantly because a fish longer than the lure leader would otherwise be able to chafe the main line/double line with its body and tail; (2) with a longer leader the wireman, if you have one, can get the leader and control the fish more easily.


1. how would i rig up my windon leader to were i can change lures often and quickly? if i have to cut the mono leader, slide of the lure and recrimp the hook to change skirts everytime? i like the idea of less stuff in the water.

Snap swivel is normally the best way to do this, although the snap must be both strong enough to handle the pressure and as small in profile as possible. For lighter tackle the McMahon snaps are ok as are extra strong snap clips (sometimes called French clips). The momoi leg splitters are tolerable but must be watched for looseness and tightened up if that happens. For lure fishing with heavier tackle I use a small shackle.


2. if i left my lures on leaders and had a snap swivel at the end of the windon, will that work? do i lose the "natural presentation"? because obviously i have snaps and crimps in front of the bait?
a. how long should my leaders on my lures be?
b. how long should the windon be?

Most of the time this depends on what you are after and how spooky it is. If you are billfishing five to six feet of lure leader is fine. For heavier tackle a longer windon leader say 20 to 22 feet is normally best, as there are several advantages to having a long leader on a bigger fish. For light tackle 15 to 20 feet is ok. Tuna fishing there is a definite school of thought that believes that the swivel should be well ahead of the bait or lure for superior presentation. This is not always essential to get a tuna bite but it is worth keeping in mind if there is heavy fishing pressure. If you think this is necessary the Carolina style setups which use something like 50 or more yards of 100 lb mono tied to a spro swivel (which can be cranked through the rod guides) should be worth trying. They primarily set these up to be fished with baits, lures can be fished with this system but will require cutting the line if a change is needed.

[tunatamer4]

Guys-
Break down the word, WIND-ON LEADER. It means to be able to wind the leader onto the reel. IMO, if you are using a wind-on, there are NO swivels involved in the equasion, in-line or snap, period.

What you are describing as windo-ons are just a trace of line connecting your mainline to your swivel. Your loop to loop connection should go to from mainline to braid/dacron to mono/floro, to lure/hook. Once you put a swivel in there, you create a leader.

Depending on the type of fishing you do will determine whether or not to run a wind-on or connect with a swivel. Billfish and mahi are not too leadershy and you really don't have to worry TOO much about an additional "bubble trail" from a swivel but tunas on the other hand can be a *****.

When the fish are both boat and leader shy and you need stealth, you need to eliminate the swivels so as not to spook them when your lines are way back. If they're aggressive and are tight to the boat, by all means run with a snap since all that is in the water is the bait/ lure anyway.

My point is, every day has a different story and you need to read the book for that day as it is being written. If you need stealth or angler control at boatside, go wind-on, if not, use a swivel with a leader.