Why wind on leader?

[sportfishingusa]

Guys-
Break down the word, WIND-ON LEADER. It means to be able to wind the leader onto the reel. IMO, if you are using a wind-on, there are NO swivels involved in the equasion, in-line or snap, period.

What you are describing as windo-ons are just a trace of line connecting your mainline to your swivel. Your loop to loop connection should go to from mainline to braid/dacron to mono/floro, to lure/hook. Once you put a swivel in there, you create a leader.

Depending on the type of fishing you do will determine whether or not to run a wind-on or connect with a swivel. Billfish and mahi are not too leadershy and you really don't have to worry TOO much about an additional "bubble trail" from a swivel but tunas on the other hand can be a *****.

When the fish are both boat and leader shy and you need stealth, you need to eliminate the swivels so as not to spook them when your lines are way back. If they're aggressive and are tight to the boat, by all means run with a snap since all that is in the water is the bait/ lure anyway.

My point is, every day has a different story and you need to read the book for that day as it is being written. If you need stealth or angler control at boatside, go wind-on, if not, use a swivel with a leader.

that is very well said.. and if i might add one little thing to this it would be.. that like he said you can go with the wind-on and if you need to make changes fast you can always crimp your windon to the snap swivel!! then your all done!!

[hass]

awesome input, well said. thanks for the help. i cant wait to try my new wind ons!

now all i need is some nice weather, seas are 10 to 14 offshore today. me no likey.

[waynofish]

.
What you are describing as windo-ons are just a trace of line connecting your mainline to your swivel. Your loop to loop connection should go to from mainline to braid/dacron to mono/floro, to lure/hook. Once you put a swivel in there, you create a leader.

Yes, that's what a WIND ON LEADER is. Now you can crank the leader onto the rod up to the swivel, by then the fish will be right there. You're just eliminating the swivel. He's asking about a quick change system and what I described you can basically find on most charter and tournament opperations in this hemesphere.
As I said also there is another type of wind on for tuna fishing which, as described by patudo, lets you wind a small spro type swivel through th guides. Personally when strictly tuna trolling that is the set-up I use. When general trolling or billfishing I use the WIND ON LEADERS as I described them. Is it the only way? Absolutely not! but it is an easy system that works.

[tunatamer4]

Yes, that's what a WIND ON LEADER is. Now you can crank the leader onto the rod up to the swivel, by then the fish will be right there. You're just eliminating the swivel. He's asking about a quick change system and what I described you can basically find on most charter and tournament opperations in this hemesphere.
As I said also there is another type of wind on for tuna fishing which, as described by patudo, lets you wind a small spro type swivel through th guides. Personally when strictly tuna trolling that is the set-up I use. When general trolling or billfishing I use the WIND ON LEADERS as I described them. Is it the only way? Absolutely not! but it is an easy system that works.

Maybe I didn't state it clearly enough, or maybe I'm just out of my F-n mind.

Your LEADER is what is BETWEEN the hook and the swivel. It doesn't matter if you use an in-line swivel or a snap swivel. Once a break occurs in the connection of a TRUE wind-on, it is no longer a wind-on leader but a connection of your mainline to your swivel.

Let me ask this. If I was to tie a bimini, put an in-line swivel on that, then crimp on fifteen feet of of mono, then crimp on another in-line swivel, then have ten foot of flourocarbon to the bait, according to you, everything from the bimini to the hook is leader? Sorry to disagree, but I think not.

Wind-on leaders are made, sold and known as wind-ons but once they're broken by a swivel, they are just another trace of line and no longer are an actual LEADER.

Think about it carefully and you'll see it makes sense.

[tunatamer4]

i am in the process of making my own wind on leaders.

i am using 165# momoi leader material and 165# hollow braid. I shortened the leaders on my lures to 3 feet and i was looking at the whole rig and wondered why i needed the wind on leader anyways? This particular rig is a TLD30, i have momoi 30# line on the spool. I like the idea of having tension on the rod while i handle the fish, instead of me having to wire the fish as well since we are always shorthanded, but couldn't i just do that with a shorter mono leader on the lure to the doubled momoi line/snap wivel? and skip the whole hollow braided line spliced to leader part? What am i missing here?

hass-

After re-reading your question, the answer is YES. You could forego the "wind-on" and just connect to the momoi. The only "problem" with a real short leader is when the big girl comes calling, there is always the risk of her parting the line with her tail as she grayhounds to the horizon. If you are going to use short leaders, I'd advise a top shot of some sort.

Sorry I got carried away with my other responses and didn't address YOUR issue.

[waynofish]

If I were to tie a bimini and create a double section of about, say 2-5 ft. Then connect by knot whether loop to loop with a dacron splice or just tie a length of mono to the double line, that is where my leader begins. The double line is not included in the leader. About 20-23 ft away I crimp on a swivel. Then I attach a shorter section of 6 - 9 foot to that swivel giving myself a 29 ft LEADER. IGFA regs for 30lb+ is 30'---double does not count but can't be more then 10' with that length leader. The whole thing is a wind on because the leader, beginning with the knot to the double line can be wound through the guides onto the reel up to the short trace part of the leader attached by swivel. Call it whatever you want but that is a wind on leader allowed in all tournaments using IGFA rules.
If my reel was loaded with a dacron or braid backing and then a TOP SHOT of about 200/300 yds of mono either spliced into it or connected by loop to loop ( depending on application) was added to it, that (backing + TOP SHOT) would be my line. Then I would tie a bimini (or spider is good for light stuff) to the end of my line (TOP SHOT). Then return to beginning of this post and you would see where my leader begins. Once again IGFA regulation for tournaments. Simple. Of course you don't need to go by IGFA rules. I find it a good habit so all my rigs are rigged by spec so I don't have to worry whether it's right or not come tourny time, but that's just me.

[tunatamer4]

If I were to tie a bimini and create a double section of about, say 2-5 ft. Then connect by knot whether loop to loop with a dacron splice or just tie a length of mono to the double line, that is where my leader begins. The double line is not included in the leader. About 20-23 ft away I crimp on a swivel. Then I attach a shorter section of 6 - 9 foot to that swivel giving myself a 29 ft LEADER. IGFA regs for 30lb+ is 30'---double does not count but can't be more then 10' with that length leader. The whole thing is a wind on because the leader, beginning with the knot to the double line can be wound through the guides onto the reel up to the short trace part of the leader attached by swivel. Call it whatever you want but that is a wind on leader allowed in all tournaments using IGFA rules.
If my reel was loaded with a dacron or braid backing and then a TOP SHOT of about 200/300 yds of mono either spliced into it or connected by loop to loop ( depending on application) was added to it, that (backing + TOP SHOT) would be my line. Then I would tie a bimini (or spider is good for light stuff) to the end of my line (TOP SHOT). Then return to beginning of this post and you would see where my leader begins. Once again IGFA regulation for tournaments. Simple. Of course you don't need to go by IGFA rules. I find it a good habit so all my rigs are rigged by spec so I don't have to worry whether it's right or not come tourny time, but that's just me.

I can see that no matter what, neither one of us is gonna budge on what an actual leader is so I won't say any more about it.

There is one thing I do ask of you though, waynofish, could you please inform me in the future of any release tournaments that I may be fishing against you.
I'm done with this one.

[waynofish]

There is one thing I do ask of you though, waynofish, could you please inform me in the future of any release tournaments that I may be fishing against you.
I'm done with this one.

Usually fish most tourneys in the mid atlantic area. Feel free to ask around what boat I'm on so you can come by for inspection. No problem here. Have fished many on the international circuit with observers who have all checked and approved my rigs. Actually they are no different then the ones on the other boats. The observers let us know when they see the official release. As the leader (the conection at the double line leader via knot or dacron loop to loop "cat's paw")touches the rod tip. Sometimes they are required to turn in a sample of the whole leader, including a section of the main line so all connections are attached. Never a problem. Stop on by. Bring your own tape measure if you don't trust mine. Everything is 100% legal.
See ya on the dock!
Outa here!

[Patudo]

The piece between swivel and hook is the lure leader or bait leader. If the swivel is tied directly to the double line, the lure leader can be as long as 25+ feet (IGFA 30 feet maximum) on a big marlin lure. The lure leader is much shorter when a wind on leader is used - ie a piece of heavier mono connected to the double line by a dacron splice or knot allowing it to be stored on the reel. In a wind on setup the leader section starts from where the heavier mono is knotted or otherwise connected to the double line - giving a decent amount of heavier mono between the angler and the fish, but allowing most of the heavy mono to be packed on the reel. If the angler can get the knot or connection into the rod tip, that should count the same for release purposes as the swivel on a long leader setup touching the rod tip.

That Carolina setup where 50+ yards of mono or fluoro is tied to a spro swivel could also be called a wind on setup. The section between the swivel and hook would be the leader. It is slightly confusing because the length of mono/fluoro is unusually long (to get the swivel as far away from the bait as possible) and with a breaking strain of around 100 lb, fairly light.

[Squidnation]

According to the IGFA "there are no regulations regarding the material or strength of the leader material". So really the question is where to does the leader begin. It would begin where the leader material meets the mainline be it single or double.

When double line is used it must be used of the actual line to catch the fish. So a leader would begin when the line other then the mainline is attached to the leader(not including backing -which is a totally different topic). having a swivel in the middle of your leader is not against igfa rules. At least not anywhere I have seen.

BTW - if this isn't the case then every single tournament boat I have ever fished on, observed on or even spoke to is breaking the rules. Including quite a few IGFA reps.