PROPERLY SPINED RODS

[Ed k]

Propper spine location is a key factor when building a Standup or trolling rod. What will happen when battling a big fish standup style if the spine is for say 45' off center, The rod will naturally try to rotate in your hands toward the spine causing great stress to the foregrip and guides. Yes you can be off the spine, but by tiny increments, Not 45,60,90 +degrees away. My.02 cents

As stated many times before on this thread and many others SPINE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any rod with the guides on top is going to twist the line is trying to get to the bottom of the rod this is why a spinning rod doesn't twist, why spiral/acid wraps don't twist it doesn't have a thing to do with the spine. The reason you don't notice much on bigger rods is they are bigger takes more pressure to make the rod twist this is why when you put more drag on it is wants to twist. I saw a demo a couple of years ago same blanks 1 built with guides on top, properly spined the other spiral wrapped way off the spine both were in a rod holder with roller bearings inserted and the handles inside the bearings. You load the one with guides on top it would spin upside down right away, the spiral wrapped rod would sit upright no matter how hard you pulled on it.

[CaptLeoNYC]

As stated many times before on this thread and many others SPINE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any rod with the guides on top is going to twist the line is trying to get to the bottom of the rod this is why a spinning rod doesn't twist, why spiral/acid wraps don't twist it doesn't have a thing to do with the spine. The reason you don't notice much on bigger rods is they are bigger takes more pressure to make the rod twist this is why when you put more drag on it is wants to twist. I saw a demo a couple of years ago same blanks 1 built with guides on top, properly spined the other spiral wrapped way off the spine both were in a rod holder with roller bearings inserted and the handles inside the bearings. You load the one with guides on top it would spin upside down right away, the spiral wrapped rod would sit upright no matter how hard you pulled on it.

Not to argue, but you are still stead fast on believing that the spine has nothing to do with it theory. I am not saying you are wrong and I am not saying I am right, but the spine serves its purpose and any experienced rodbuilder will tell you that finding the spine or placing the guides in the vicinity of the spine HAS A PURPOSE. """The action and overall bend of the rod depends on the spine""", Or do you not agree with that statement either?? Give it up

[CaptLeoNYC]

Also ED, your demo you witnessed sounds interesting, but did you even wonder why the properly spined rod with the guides on top spun over? Gravity does play its part to ya know? The weight of the guides on top naturally wants to spin over. Try balancing a trolling rod by laying it across one finger on each hand and try to keep the guides upright, it will flop naturally.

[Ed k]

Yes gravity does play a role but the reel was on top on the spiral wrapped rod too. Tom Kirkman who runs Rodbuilding.org and RodMaker Magazine is the one who had the display at the Expo a couple of years ago. Again the spine does not serve a purpose. What is it made of the thicker section of blank from the layup? the stronger side? the straighter side? could be all or non of the above because it doesn't exist except in theory. I will agree that you can get some effects with spine finders but what does it mean when you can sometimes find 3-4 "spines" on a blank that it is no good? How would you place the guides on that? What about one that has no discernable spine, I guess that rod is no good too. What I'm trying to say is if you put the guides on top the rod is going to twist regardless of where you put the "spine" so it doesn't matter. If you want to stop the twist the only to ways to do it are build a spinning rod or a spiral/acid rod and get the guides on the bottom. You can put the "spine" at 206 degrees from top dead center and put the guides on top the rod is going to twist if enough load is applied you can then put them on the bottom ie. spinning or spiral/acid and it isn't going to twist regardless of the load applied. Do some research, besides a 20-30 year old book, on the subject you will be suprised. Why do you think a large majority of you custom long range tuna rods from the West Coast are spiral wrapped they even make roller guides for spiral setups. Why you might ask hasn't it taken off because people are affraid of change and a wierd looking rod until they fish one.

If you want to build your on the spine that is fine nothing wrong with it but it is not needed build it on the straightest axis and have a rod that looks straight when you look down it and will preform like all the others unless they have the guides underneath the blank.

[Taz575]

I agree with Ed. Spine doesn't mean much anymore!! Like Ed said, some rods have multiple spines, others you can barely detect them. Sometimes there are 2 spines, not 180 degrees apart! I built up a tuna trolling/standup rod, and the reel seat shifted on me and it was off spine. Worked just fine, guys fishing it didn't notice any twisting if they kept the rod aligned. I've picked up 22# Olympic plates with it with no twisting problems. In my experience, spine doesn't mean much to me! If someone is looking for top casting distance, like in a surf rod, I will often spine it just to get that little extra snap when casting for extra speed. Other than that, I rarely spine a rod anymore. No problems or complaints from customers yet!

Also, think about how the blanks are made. Material is cut into a triangular shape and rolled around a mandrel. The material edges will not be straight on a blank, or along the same axis. The spine will sometimes change depending on how far up or down you are on the rod. I've seen it before. Look at a Grafighter Composite blank, where you can see the different materials. You can clearly see where the graphite on the outside ends.

Spine had nothing to do with that damage pictured. That is from too much drag and not spacing the guides properly/using tall enough guides to keep the line off of the foregrip. With a fish that large, the rod may twist in your hand if it starts to run sideways to the boat or something because of gravity, like has already been stated.

Take 2 identical rods, 1 on spine, 1 off spine, and have someone fish them. See if they notice any twisting or ask which one was spined and which wasn't. Chances are, they won't be able to tell you the difference!

[8 week wonder]

if this rod was fished stand up style, it looks like the damage to the EVA would be just about where a fisherman might pinch the line to the grip to get a little more pressure on the fish. just a thought.

as to the spine, i haven't heard any argument that spining a rod detracts from its performance. since it only takes a few extra seconds to do, i spine all of my rods because that's what most west coast guys expect from a custom rod.

[FLATLINER]

The whole spining vs not spining a rod is a big debate. I personally will spine every rod that I build. The whole debate started around the same time that the US got an influx of foreign produced blanks into the market. Coincidence? When the blanks were produced in the states, spining a rod was normal and accepted practice as almost 90% of the blanks were straight. When the blanks were made overseas and then came to the states, they found that they had a large percentage of blanks that were crooked and could not be built, creating wasted money to the companies. At that point, someone had the idea of building on the straight. This utilized the wasted banks that previously couldn't be used, thereby making use of previously unusable product and reducing the losses to the manufacturers. Just because a mass producer does it, does that make it right? Hell no. Actually, if they do it, then I know that I won't do it. If people want a rod that performs like a mass produced POS, then go waste their money on one at BPS or walmart. I won't stoop to that level.

In my mind, this is like mounting tires onto a rim and balancing them and driving away. Would a wheel alignment improve the performance? Yes. Is it one more step that has to be done? Yes, but worth it. The same is for rods. If we as builders are taking the time to put a beautiful buttwrap or inlay on the rod, taking painstaking efforts to address guide placement and taking every effort to make the rod custom to the customer, I feel the least we can do as builders is spine the rod. I would contend that the way to do it os spine it, and if its not going to be straight on the spine, then build it on the straight. A good compromise that might make sense?

Just my 2 cents on this.

Kevin Knox
www.anglersenvy.com

[CaptLeoNYC]

The whole spining vs not spining a rod is a big debate. I personally will spine every rod that I build. The whole debate started around the same time that the US got an influx of foreign produced blanks into the market. Coincidence? When the blanks were produced in the states, spining a rod was normal and accepted practice as almost 90% of the blanks were straight. When the blanks were made overseas and then came to the states, they found that they had a large percentage of blanks that were crooked and could not be built, creating wasted money to the companies. At that point, someone had the idea of building on the straight. This utilized the wasted banks that previously couldn't be used, thereby making use of previously unusable product and reducing the losses to the manufacturers. Just because a mass producer does it, does that make it right? Hell no. Actually, if they do it, then I know that I won't do it. If people want a rod that performs like a mass produced POS, then go waste their money on one at BPS or walmart. I won't stoop to that level.

In my mind, this is like mounting tires onto a rim and balancing them and driving away. Would a wheel alignment improve the performance? Yes. Is it one more step that has to be done? Yes, but worth it. The same is for rods. If we as builders are taking the time to put a beautiful buttwrap or inlay on the rod, taking painstaking efforts to address guide placement and taking every effort to make the rod custom to the customer, I feel the least we can do as builders is spine the rod. I would contend that the way to do it os spine it, and if its not going to be straight on the spine, then build it on the straight. A good compromise that might make sense?

Just my 2 cents on this.

Kevin Knox
www.anglersenvy.com

I agree, very nicely put. Spining may be overlooked by some, but why not take the extra simple step to align your custom rod in the blanks " most common and comfortable bend".??