Captain Tred Barta - FISHING: Calcutta Kill Tournaments

[hubris 1]

Originally Posted by Squidnation

Sam I was really shocked to see that the US is the largest importer of Costa Rican Billfish. That must be mostly made up of Sailfish. Any idea where these sailfish go. Is it a food fish for humans or ferterlizer, Farm animal or pet food? I am just amazed that I have never seen sailfish on any menu or in any grocery store.

Here Kitty Kitty.......... yep, thats the value they put on them,

[SeaMent]

Damn this is almost as bad as the WMO-WASH POST article, talk about a total waste of time, see ya'll

[Ironwoodtuna]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Many of you know that I am friends with Tred and have hunted and fished with him since 2000. I often disagree with him and I have had many, many arguments with him, yet I wouldn't trade his friendship for anything! I think he's right on this point and Marlin $$$ Calcuttas are wrong!

Like him or hate him, it is funny to see that only crazy Tred is speaking up about the CALCUTTA $$$ and killing these great fish we all love and how wrong it is to be killing these great fish for money.

I guess that since most bloggers hide behind their call signs and don't use thier real names its not something that will get discussed on here very much.

I would love to here from all the millioniares with their take on this point... as well as the tourneys and their sponsors...but, that probably won't happen..
During the years I fished offshore with Tred we only had a couple of whites come up to the trolled rigs and got spooled by a big Blue. I always wanted to catch my own Blue or White Marlin. I also said that even thaough I would like to go and compete one day to possible win a Marlin tourney, it would have to be a RELEASE TOURNEY.

But, that said, this summer I caught and proudly released both my first Blue Marlin around 400lbs. and my son Cody's first White Marlin around 40lbs. It was great and just reenforced my beleifs that if you can't eat it it should go back to be caught again.

I see this entire Presidential race about people being hypocritical like OBAMA want to take away the American spirit and make everyone equal.

I guess like OBAMA those who want to put on these tourneys also want their big sponsors and their big dollars. Who's got the balls to stand up for what is right rather than being political and going for the $$$. Big money could be had if everyone required the tourneys to be RELEASE and not calcuttas.

I look at it this way I stopped selling my Stripers in 1984 just before the collapse of the biomass. It was the right thing to do, in my eyes, but I was already late in making this decission. Yet in reality, I was a year earlier than congress.

I look to make my money by my business, not by the fish I love to catch with my son. Whenever money is involved in fishing or hunting and your trying to subsidize your cost or income its not good.

I am not talking about chartering, so don't go crazy, I am talking about saying "Oh I made $400.00 pinhooking yesterday for XXXfish on my day off". Go fish for the sake of fishing and getting something to eat and having fun with your kids or friends.

With all the video equipment that is available today, why do we need to kill these great warriors of the sea??? This is in a way hypocritical because if you shouldn't need more than your word. But we all know that whenever money is involved there will be cheaters! So that's why we need video cameras to verify that you and your crew followed the guidelines and didn't cheat.

But, it is a small price to pay for not KILLING these great fish!

I don't sell my tuna or my stripers and yes, like you I spend a ton of cash going out to catch them. I would love to make a big payday in a tournement one day, but only if it was a release tourney.

All the eatible fish callcuttas I don't have any problem with as long as there are rules and they make sense. Take a kid fishing, release those big fish with your kids, it will feel great and your kids will grow up to love you and what you stand for!

Signing out, Marty L. McMillan, XIAO MU JI

[Deep C]

I got your balls right here. Nothing about me is political or politically correct. I let go 99% or more of what I catch in the way of billfish but not for one second do I think twice about killing one if it means my mortgage is popaid for another year or my daughter has another semester of college paid for...

Yeah they're magnificent but not some f*****g idol to be worshiped blindly. Tuna are magnificent. Swords and makos too. Tred made his points and I responded that the taking of one here and there is no different than taking a tuna here and there... I don't take em as a choice... not for political correctness... I don't take em because there is plenty other things out there better eating. If I do slap one on the dock to collect a paycheck that fish will be eaten to the last scrap.

I'm for the ideas I laid out earlier in this tread. Yes we could pop up big screens and run vid or digital stills up there to appease some of the crowd but theres no substitute for blood and I don't give a shit whether its tuna, mako, sword or marlin... They're all fish. Most of the tournies I fish are release but a couple are not. What ever the game I'm there to win, not tiptoe around some bullshit bunny hugging philosophy.

You're entitled to agree with Tred. I choose not to. Not a thing hypocritical about it. He kills some tunas and lets others go. I kill a very few billfish and let the others go... Whi gives a crap about the calcuttas? I do... Its how I feed my family... My boss does... Its something he can help me and my deckhand out with to make life a little bit better. Wayne Huizenga does when he wins a tourney and gives half to his crew and half to the island church where the tourney was held.
It adds dimension to the sport... doesn't distract or harm as so notably pontificated by the epiletted one... A kill tournament does not want everyone equal. Somebodys gotta catch the biggest so that analogy holds water like a screen.

I said it before. I stopped catching bluefins when I saw how hurt they were back in the 90's. I havn't sold a fish other than them since 1986... I can count on my fingers the number I have killed out of the last couple thousand that have come to my transom. I've given up a lot but I won't give it all up...

[Ironwoodtuna]

Originally Posted by Deep C

I got your balls right here. Nothing about me is political or politically correct. I let go 99% or more of what I catch in the way of billfish but not for one second do I think twice about killing one if it means my mortgage is popaid for another year or my daughter has another semester of college paid for...

Yeah they're magnificent but not some f*****g idol to be worshiped blindly. Tuna are magnificent. Swords and makos too.
Yes we could pop up big screens and run vid or digital stills up there to appease some of the crowd but theres no substitute for blood and I don't give a shit whether its tuna, mako, sword or marlin... They're all fish. Most of the tournies I fish are release but a couple are not. What ever the game I'm there to win, not tiptoe around some bullshit bunny hugging philosophy.

I kill a very few billfish and let the others go... Who gives a crap about the calcuttas? I do... Its how I feed my family... My boss does... Its something he can help me and my deckhand out with to make life a little bit better. Wayne Huizenga does when he wins a tourney and gives half to his crew and half to the island church where the tourney was held.

It adds dimension to the sport... doesn't distract or harm as so notably pontificated by the epiletted one... A kill tournament does not want everyone equal.

I said it before. I stopped catching bluefins when I saw how hurt they were back in the 90's. I havn't sold a fish other than them since 1986... I can count on my fingers the number I have killed out of the last couple thousand that have come to my transom. I've given up a lot but I won't give it all up...

Hey DEEP C,

Thanks for the passionate reply, and you not selling BFT since 1986 is great, not enough have done that!

It sounds like you might be a mate or a captain on a charter boat, which if you are, that's great and lots of guys need your guidance and get great enjoyment from your services. Or maybe your like me, and just find every excuse and opprotunity to just take guys out fishing. I also am sure you could teach me a thing of too with all the Marlin you say you've caught.

I love the smell and look of blood all over the cockpit too! Adreniline is a great liberator of the heart! I agree about the dimension that the kill has on a tourney, putting a big mako or nice bigeye or yellowfin on the deck and bleeding it out.

I love hunting, killing, and grill'in a great moose steak then slicing it rare and jump'in or putt'in slice after slice of shishimi into hot wasabi sause and into my mouth!

...and I make no quams about it...

Hunters are the greatest management of our resources...better than any group of tree hungers and bunny lovers....Today, you can kill more deer than ever because of the dollars and sense hunting management has put into the sport. But, there too idiots can make it go south too.

I know that if we had the correct managment of the fishery world wide, then I would have less or no problem with an occasional callcutta toruney. But at the same time, I also can understand if that is the case about the extra $$$ that a callcutta win puts in your pocket! But, for the unforseen future, I think you could still make your big payday by winning a release tournment and the sponsors could maybe give away at the awards dinner a full replica mount of the big fish that were released.


In China, my wife watched her father and other men sitting by the rivers edge catching and killing every little fish they could catch everyday. If they caught one fish or one thousand fish they kept everything. Now, they hardly catch a fish a day. That's their problem, every little fish... they never were taught conservation.

But, You know that if Teddy Roosevelt had listened to all the guys who killed everything for money, we wouldn't be here having this discussion. We wouldn't have the National Forest or the laws to help preserve what I beleive to be an American success story, hunting and fishing.

I am not trying to compare the callcuttas with overfishing or mismanagement, God knows we have enough of that. It is just me making the point that sometimes we got to look beyond the instant gradification, the big paydays based on killing these big breeders and do what's right to help reverse the downward spiral.

Fishing and killing in moderation, eatible fish is great!
I wish you and all other callcutta guys great success, but think for the near future that less or no callcuttas makes better sense.

It would be great to have the biomass that would support and allow the promotion of few callcutta tourneys a year.

Tight lines DeepC!

Marty

[Deep C]

The biomass is there... Just getting more and more displaced. You want to catch malin you go where marlin live. They however don't live in a lot of the places they used to. Sure the numbers are somewhat off thanks to longlines and drift nets and what not but not that drastic of a decrease. Rather the fish have moved because we are relentlessly knocking the shit out of the bait stocks.
You used to be able to set your watch by jersey Mud Hole giants. That fish's numbers are down in deed but still some left. Why dont they gather at the mudhole? Theres no food. Yeah we get the runs of certain types of bait through there but not what the giant was there for. The ling and whiting have been scraped off the bottom leaving scorched earth.
Bunker blasting from the Chessepeake up, herring hammering from Main down, squid squashing from Hydrographers past the Hudson down to the Norfolk, ballyhoo bashing from Key West to Canaveral, the list is endless... Its not the predators we're knocking off its the food...
Want something to worry about?... That would be my focus. We as sportsmen do have an impact there. Massive fleets chunking for months on end slinging endless flats of butters and macks and herring and bunkers... I think of our goggle eye scad down here. Once something we caught right off the dock before and afrter trips now running $100 a dozen. The boy doing that now forced some nights to run 80 miles and into400' instead of the old 30-60'. There used to be a 1000 boat tarpon tounament west of here... three dozen pinfish each, each day...Thats 6000 dozen... Even our boys in the battle wagons in these tournaments . 100 dredge baits and 9 working baits changed how many times a day?... Its obscene what we are doing to the bait...

[sportfishingusa]

why in the hell do we all continue to keep talking about this?!? it is a topic that has been beat to death 100000000 times over again...

life is about choices.. wether you choose to kill or release it is two seperate things here..

you talk about bloggers hiding behind screens!?!? come on now lets be serious.. we have some of the best and well known captains in the world on this site.. so lets not even go there.. it is just that most of them are to busy to worry about this bookaki which it is.. complete bookaki..

i watched national georgraphics last night and saw the legendary bart miller kill a 1600 lb blue marlin.. why dont you boycott his lures and stop buying anything from him..

it is sad that we spend our days on here wasting time arguing about the stupid fact on wether we should kill marlin or not...

tournament kill fishing is just like any other sport of job. tred, me, you, and any other person in the world would love to cash in on 1million bucks for killing a fish.. i dont care who you are, what you do, how well off you are, or your stupid bookaki morals..

tred makes money killing deer, bear, fish, and anything else that has been once alive.. he hunts and fishes for a living..

go and do some of the damn research people have done on these fish and also on the statistics of the amount of fish that are killed vs the ones released which i think maybe swami had posted and you will see that the views and others views against calcuttas killing fish is completely constrewed just like everything else that has to do with fishing..

what about the hundreds of fish that are killed just for recreational value and have no value on them!? is that ok.. from what you preach it is.. just cant make money doing it..

as for anyone else who is for or against i think this topic is beat to death and should be layed to rest..

everyone has valid points but it is not going to stop and there is no reason for it.. could you imagine if human beings never got killed or died and lived forever.. what would the earth look like?!?

it is called an ecosystem and as humans we know that people are born and people die.. just like freaking fish.. and if it does not happen we will be so overpopulated it will be disgusting.

the same thing happened down in the chesapeake if my mind recalls correctly.. there was a problem with bass and they put on tighter restriction a long time ago or some other kind of fish and when they did that they began to eat all the juvenile crabs.. then they loosened the restrictions or tightened them and the crabs came back..

it is all a big bookaki circle jerk.. no one hides anywhere and if treds your friend great.. but dont agree to disagree just because he is your friend...

[Squidnation]

Its been a pretty interesting debate. The wind is blowing 40 mph. what else are people gonna do.

Not sure if you understand the idea of a sportfishing forum. Don't worry, you not the only one. The whole idea is to discuss, learn, teach, debate and hell even show off every once in a while.

Why are we still talking about this- well partially because you logged back on and brought it back to the top of the page.

BTW - tred - Once again your facts are skewered. First it was that billfish are illigal to sell. Swami pointed out the error in that one. Now you say that their is a creel limit of one billfish per person. There is no creel limit on white marlin or blue marlin. your angling HMS permit allows an angler to kill as many as they want so long as it is big enough to be legal. There is however a total HMS quota. Can't remember what that number is but as soon as it is hit then no other billfish can be killed, Calcutta or no calcutta.

Other HMS Recreational Limits
The recreational daily swordfish retention limit is 1 fish per person, with a maximum of 4 fish per private vessel, 6 for a charter vessel, and 15 for a headboat vessel. The minimum size for swordfish within the recreational fishery is 47 inches, lower jaw-fork length. You may not keep longbill spearfish. There are no retention limits for Atlantic sailfish, blue marlin and white marlin, but the NOAA Fisheries encourages recreational anglers to release all billfish alive. The minimum sizes for billfish are as follows: Blue Marlin: 99 inches lower jaw fork length; White Marlin: 66 inches lower jaw fork length; Sailfish: 63 inches lower jaw fork length; Spearfish: Retention prohibited. Lower jaw fork length is a straight line measurement from the tip of the lower jaw to the fork of the caudal fin. The recreational limit on sharks is 1 shark per vessel per trip with a minimum size of 54 inches fork length; plus on Atlantic sharpnose shark per person per trip (no minimum size); plus 1 bonnethead shark per person per trip (no minimum size). None of these fish may be sold. Swordfish and billfish landed must be reported. For swordfish and billfish reporting, call 800-894-5528. For NC and MD landings call 410-213-1531 or 800-338-7804 respectively.

I don't mean to be overly criitcal but someone with you public exposure should really check the facts before you spat off incorrect rules and laws. It would really help your credibility.

[sportfishingusa]

your 100 percent right bill....

i apologize and i do understand a sportfishing forumn... just dont agree one bit with what is said...

[Captain Tred Barta]

Originally Posted by tim R

Obviously you did not read your own thread completely...What a waste, the same thing was repeated throughout, Calcutta Tournaments are not the enemy, Commercial Overfishing is...Calcutta's can be argued as morally questionable by those who don't fish towards those who fish for a living or make a living from fishing, but that's a cocktail party not fishing.

It's not "blood" betting when captains, crews, boat builders, boat yards, tackle stores make a living from these events because some owners choose to fish them. Yes if we could come up with a 100% release event that accurately accounted for size or length of fish, I am sure most would agree to that system, but it doesn't exist and THIS is certainly not the problem with our fisheries management. At the end of the day if you don't want to kill fish, stop fishing...

In Kona, HI we have several major calcutta tournaments in the summer that are probably responsible for $10M annually to our economy (being very conservative)...About 14 marlin were killed in these tournaments this year, which means Marlin were worth $714,000.00 per pound AND in Kona, HI as in most other locations, the fish were eaten and not wasted.

I don't know how you hit anything with a bow, being as you were so far off target with your thinking on this topic...Which brings up another point, you harvest / kill animals for your show which IS the exact same exploitation as Calcutta tournaments?

Hey if you want to do something good, come to Kona, HI we'll take you Thresher Fishing and you can catch the all tackle world record and then release it (just like we have done about 8-9 times)...It will be entertaining content for your show, help our tourism / economy and allow you to demonstrate sportfishing conservation, which IS a good thing. Hell you can even sample our amazing upland game bird hunting.

At least you'll be productive and do something positive as apposed to creating this absurd divison among sportsmen who deep down have 90% common ground, but you've choosen to highlight the 10% of discord to sell the "Tred Barta" product and gain attention.

You are entitled to your opinion, just as those of us are entitled to ours, which includes, ignoring you and your sponsors products. I couldn't help but notice no one has bought the ad space at the top of this page....

Tred I don't say this lightly because we all need support from our customers, this topic in itself divides us sportsmen, when we should seek common ground to protect our fisheries, not that it's not a debatable topic, righ now IT should not be a priority...

Hey Tim,

Sounds like I'm quite a jerk. It also sounds like you don't think too much of me or what I believe in but I do respect your thoughts, apparently, on my entire life.

So let me address just a couple things.

1. I have raised $1.8 million for underpriveliged kids.

2. I have demonstrated, over the last 10 years, that you CAN have large billfish tournaments with 100% release, no Calcutta, no observers, no lie detector tests, no lawsuits and still put millions of dollars into your local economy, still raise hundreds of thousands for charity. But it takes someone with enough guts to do it. I have done it.

Although you are entitled to your opinion; I am the guy who answers to hardly any sponsors. I'm not sure what you think I'm selling or why you even think I'm on the internet. I'm not the guy with a tv show with sponsor after sponsor after sponsor like everyone else. I am not a wealthy man and for me to turn down a couple hundred thousand dollars of sponsors a year hurts.

You are absolutely correct that commercial fishing IS a major problem and it accounts for 98% of mortality for all fish; but that doesn't mean that fishermen cannot have an intelligent conversation about the negative message we're sending our future generation.

It is very easy to hide behind an internet name. It is also very easy to criticize everyone that does not believe what you believe in. But to bring up topics and stand for things that no one wants to talk about is not easy.

Most of what you say in your message could be viewed as correct. However, if someone has a different point of view, it's viewed as incorrect. I poletely request that you read this thread again.

Using your real name, the name of your vessel: Please answer the following questions.

1. Hawaii has evolved as one of the greatest billfish destinations in the world. Hawaii has some of the greatest captains as well. Why doesn't Hawaii have a 100% release forum on all tournaments, giving all of the money to charity? Good question, isn't it? Please step up and answer it.

2. Please speak to the children worldwide, under your real name and boat name, why it's important as grown-ups, who recognize that every conservation group specifically has found through their research that our billfish should be released, not killed, even if it means 2% of the fish killed every year.

3. There's no right or wrong answer here, there are opinions based on several factors, some people vote their pocket book, because they have to. The fact remains, no one is right, and no one is wrong. This topic and thread is extremely uncomfortable for everyone.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Calcutta Kill Tournaments are Legal. Therefore, if you love it, do it. Still, the issue is not black and white. I've always ever thrown hardballs, not softballs.

If I'm not an asset here on sportfishermen.com, I'll go away; and you can play softball once again.

In closing, I have a couple words I hope everyone reads. Everyone wants to talk about commercial fishermen, how bad they are, how they kill 98%; we all want to get together and point the finger at someone else. Let me ask you a couple questions.

If you were a commercial fishermen and you had fished your entire life just like your father and his father and so on, (by the way, which is very prevalent in Hawaii), what right do we have to end their career and destroy a tradition and way of life?

Believe me, this topic of commercial fishing is going to be uncomfortable for everyone also.

I thank you for your comments, appreciate your candor. Tim, if we met, I'm sure we would like each other.

Warmest Personal Regards,

Tight Lines, Good Luck in your tournament season,

Captain Tred Barta