Captain Tred Barta - FISHING: Calcutta Kill Tournaments

[sportfishingusa]

Originally Posted by floridadeckie

if kill tournaments are soley created and run for the purpose of burning dead dino's and waving wads of cash in front of the cameras over dead fish, the tournaments like tred's are simply a disguise to burn fuel and write off a tax deduction (donations).
now, both of these comparisons are obviously exagerated protrayals of the actual thing. Tred's tournament (which i fished both as an angler and as a crewmember in walkers) is incredible fun, and I love the light tackle/dead bait/no-kill format. its a pleasant change from the high stakes money tournaments. with all that said, after a while the "feel-good" slap on the back and paper trophy lose their exictement when compared to cash in hand.
alot of these big fish that are set up on the dock are big females that have already spread their seed many times over, and I for one refuse to kill a fish unless there is no doubt in my mind its well over 600. why would you when a released blue gets you guranteed 600 points regardless of size and a boated blue is a point per pound? you loose 100 points by boating a 500.
Fundamentally, I agree with tred on most of his points. I must, however, disagree with a few of them. are kill tournaments a cancer on our sport? most definitely not. if they are anything bad, they are a necesary evil. like previously mentioned, tag flags dont draw spectators to the docks and marinas like a big deadblue. does is suck to see 300 and 400 pound rats being hung? you're damn right it does. I would like to see tighter restrictions put on kill tournaments, such as benchmark length limits, where the largest fish killed the previous day becomes the minimum length requirement. that keeps stacks of rats from being killed and reduces the risk of a long but skinny fish being under the weight requirement.

As a whole, people respond better to incentive. The competion is higher when large amounts of money are involved. As a result, fisherman are forced to get better when competion is higher, otherwise they are left in the dust and out of the money. When crews are forced to get better, they come up with new techniques that improve efficiency, catch ratios, and potentially reduce enviromental impact. examples of such would be: snooters, circle hook rigging techniques, tag stick mounted line cutters, using moldcraft baitheads to cushions tag stick blows and reduce tag depth, the list goes one.

alex, are you going to jump over board and take a core sample of a live, swimming marlin for the sake of science? you gonna politely ask it to hold still while you check whether its a breeding male or female, or whether its fertile? dont think so. in all the kill tournaments I've fished here in the south and the bahamas, I have not seen ONE SINGLE FISH go in the dumpster to rot. in boat harbor, the locals show up with trash bags and take chunks of free meat home to feed their families for weeks. nylon tag flags probably wont grill up as well as marlin flesh. scientists use the specimens to record all sorts of data from age, weight,sex, their stage in the breeding cycle, and so on. none of this would be possible if a few fish didnt pay the price and hit the dock.

THAT COMMENT AND RESPONSE ROCKS THE HOUSE MAN!! VERY... VERY... VERY WELL SAID!!!!!!

[hubris 1]

all im saying is I wont do it. I also think the whole thing with scientist at the dock, taking core samples is a magic trick to get people to think its science. I also realize that this is a dead issue and people are going to do it. fine.....i dont fish tournaments and dont even want to. it does nothing for me but i still wouldnt kill one. its just what i think anymore. i refuse to kill what i cant eat in 5 days too. i hate frozen food so why kill a fish just to freeze it. people are still going to do it and thats fine. hell, eskimos kill whales. i have no problem with that but why do the japanese fishing fleets have to do it today? i think its wrong. they say its for science and medicine. i dont take things as literal as some here do. is this a cancer, killing fish for money and tournaments? well, cancer takes a while to kill........time will tell. and its only my opinion. but i get the argument on the other side too. oh, and for the record i think circle hooks are just a charm bracelet to be worn saying "I CARE ABOUT FISH MORTALITY" now gaff this one, he meets the size limit.

[floridadeckie]

Originally Posted by hubris 1

I also think the whole thing with scientist at the dock, taking core samples is a magic trick to get people to think its science.

i dont fish tournaments and dont even want to.

for the record i think circle hooks are just a charm bracelet to be worn saying "I CARE ABOUT FISH MORTALITY" now gaff this one, he meets the size limit.

So if you dont fish tournaments, have you ever actually stood behind scientists and biologists, watching them jot down notes and discussing them what conclusions they came to. they get some pretty detailed info. just talk to any biologist from Harbor Branch or Rosensteil and ask them what kind of data they get from Bahamian kill tournament marlin.

If you dont fish tournaments, and probably dont spend time at them, any and/or all of you information is 2nd hand at best.

you say circle hooks are a charm bracelet of fishing morality, then why did costa rica make it a law that all boats must use them when using natural bait (BTW, they only pull dead bally's). their catch ratios have gone WAY UP. the catch is that the correct, meaning non-offset true circle hooks, must be used. not these offset, hangnail j-hooks. you make it sound like tournament crews just wanna kill kill kill, and use circle hooks to appease the law. while that may be true for a very small number of crews, it is the opposite of the "silent majority"

[hubris 1]

Originally Posted by floridadeckie

So if you dont fish tournaments, have you ever actually stood behind scientists and biologists, watching them jot down notes and discussing them what conclusions they came to. they get some pretty detailed info. just talk to any biologist from Harbor Branch or Rosensteil and ask them what kind of data they get from Bahamian kill tournament marlin.

If you dont fish tournaments, and probably dont spend time at them, any and/or all of you information is 2nd hand at best.

you say circle hooks are a charm bracelet of fishing morality, then why did costa rica make it a law that all boats must use them when using natural bait (BTW, they only pull dead bally's). their catch ratios have gone WAY UP. the catch is that the correct, meaning non-offset true circle hooks, must be used. not these offset, hangnail j-hooks. you make it sound like tournament crews just wanna kill kill kill, and use circle hooks to appease the law. while that may be true for a very small number of crews, it is the opposite of the "silent majority"

yea, ive been to tournaments watching some guy looking at the fish trying to figure out what it died from. i told him, it stopped breathing. sure enough, that will kill it. c,mon....what kind of data? ask them. they will look at you like your a nut. its a disguise. it works too. secondly, some of my best conclusions are second hand. and accurate. and costa rica made circle hooks mandatory because it was politically correct. if you watch how they fish there.......its a natural. so to make it law was not only convenient but, smart. i like circles too, for stripers, and chunking tuna. but i dont remember ever hooking a billfish anywhere but in the mouth, or the bill. so, i stand by my comment........its a charm, bracelet, for guys with a marlin tattoo. all my art work is on a wall. and i dont wear a visor.......i have hair. all these things are part of a uniform, with holes in it. jmo.

[floridadeckie]

Originally Posted by hubris 1

what kind of data? ask them. they will look at you like your a nut. its a disguise.

maybe y'alls yankee scientists at wood's hole are looking for different data, but the biologists got all the data they could handle and knew exactly what it meant. concerning what kind of data they were recording, refer to my last post. bahamian marlin are

secondly, some of my best conclusions are second hand. and accurate. and costa rica made circle hooks mandatory because it was politically correct. if you watch how they fish there.......its a natural. so to make it law was not only convenient but, smart.

I must contest, while 2nd hand accounts are somewhat accurate, they are not as accurate as 1st hand, which I and many others have. but I can appreciate your stand point, 2nd hand info is frequently referred to as advice. i do find it hard to believe that CR would adopt circles as a way of remaining PC, but stranger things have happened. I began using circles long before they became a law, mainly because I got tired of digging j-hooks out of neeters and mahi, and turns out they worked really nice with billfish as well. in fact, my hookup ratios skyrocketed, especially on charters.

i like circles too, for stripers, and chunking tuna. but i dont remember ever hooking a billfish anywhere but in the mouth, or the bill.

tuna and stripers eat their feed much differently then bills. they tend to engulf their food in one shot by creating a suction toward their mouth, whereas billfish swat the bait with their bills and use direction-oriented denticles to guide the bait headfirst into their gullet. so thats comparing apples and oranges

so, i stand by my comment........its a charm, bracelet, for guys with a marlin tattoo. all my art work is on a wall. and i dont wear a visor.......i have hair. all these things are part of a uniform, with holes in it. jmo.

thats all well and good, and I respect your opinion. but I don't have a marlin tattoo (yet), my fishing uniform is almost always holy ( superstitiously and literally) and my visors serve only a functional purpose (although they make me look damn sexy).

I like the conversation/debate. keep it up

[Captain Tred Barta]

Hello Everyone on Sportfishermen.com.

Well everyone the reason I'm on Sportfishermen.com is not to get publicity or draw attention to myself. I get enough of that through my TV show, my outdoor writing and my charity tournaments. I am here because I truly believe that this is where the heart of sport fishing lies. Since I'm not afraid to be popular or unpopular, I'm bringing up topics that no one wants to discuss directly because they could be criticized. I am not afraid to be criticized and my views are often unpopular.

I have read carefully the responses so far. They are well written and all of them have good points. Calcutta Kill Tournaments for Marlin is an extremely sensitive and controversial subject and it makes people's blood boil. So let me now address your comments directly.

Stay with me everyone, and try to understand my point of view. I will never stir the pot just to stir it. Everyone here is a hypocrite including myself. One of my greatest objections to the betting of Calcutta Kill Tournaments is that you are betting money on the life of a living thing. In my heart and in my personal code, I believe this is against God's will. That being said, what a hypocrite I am. Because on my TV Show, The Best and Worst of Tred Barta, I do make money. I do not kill the animals for money, but try to portray in the show fair chase, sportsmanship, and the reason we all got into hunting and fishing in the first place. A long, long, long time ago many of the Big Eye and Yellowfin Tuna were sold to defray expenses. Am I a hypocrite? Yes I am.

Let’s go to work.

In my world, Calcutta Kill Tournaments ARE an absolute cancer. All of you objected to this word. I apologize; I probably shouldn't have been so strong.

Argument #1 - Many Charities, businesses, etc. etc. are aggrandized by Calcutta Kill Tournaments; it's good for business.

TB- If an underage girl was prostituted by her family, and the money made was given to the church, does this justify this immoral act?

Argument #2 - 98% of all fish killed in the world are killed by commercial fishermen. What difference does it make if we kill billfish as long as it's legal?

TB - I absolutely agree with you. The truth is, I don't actually think, in the big picture, releasing or killing billfish as a recreational angler is the issue. The issue is about money. The issue is what money does to people. The issue is what it teaches our kids. Is a blue marlin any holier, any more prized than a catfish in a marina? Not in my book. It's about money. It's about greed. And everyone, it's legal. My objection to Calcutta Kill Tournaments and why I call it a "Cancer" is what it does to people. In my opinion, it's not really about the sport, it's about the money. The Barta Boys and Girls Club Billfish Tournament, where there is no money, no Calcutta, no lie detector test, no lawsuits, raises a bundle of money for charity, a bundle of money for local businesses, and all the fish are released. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if we killed some Marlin. But I stand before you in my belief that it is a moral wrong to kill an animal for money. I have already admitted that I am a hypocrite. None of us are perfect. And all of us have skeletons in our closets.

Argument #3 - Many people disagree with my philosophy on Calcutta Kill Tournaments but many openly admit that seeing small 200 - 400lb blue marlin dead on the dock makes them sick.

TB - Calcutta Kill Tournaments are legal. They will continue. And although I don't believe in them, I would like to make the following suggestions. I think that size limits both in length and weight should be raised substantially. This would cut down on number of fish killed. But it would also put a higher value on the competition. That being said, if I had my way, (which I don’t) I believe Calcutta Kill Tournaments should be banned. Why does the Value of competition in fishing have to be based on money? Why can it not be based on honor?

Argument #4 - One of the responses states that billfish are legal to sell in the U.S. A recent study by the IGFA documented that the U.S. is the largest importer of billfish in the world from Costa Rica and in Hawaii the sale of billfish is very prevalent.

TB- Boy, have I made some incredible blunder here? Certainly I am not naive, but am I this stupid? I might be. I thought that the sale of billfish was illegal in the U.S. that being sailfish, white/blue/stripped marlin etc. Of course I know very well, what happens in Cabo and in many parts of Hawaii. But I had no idea that we imported billfish and have it for sale legally. I am not only embarrassed if this is true, but I am asking everyone to join in here; what are the rules in the U.S. concerning the sale of billfish. In all of my travels I have never seen billfish on the menu in any restaurant in the U.S. Help me out here, let's hear some input. I'm calling Mike Leach and Mr. Cramer, Ex-President and President of the IGFA tonight. Should be interesting.

Argument #5 - Tred, I would rather see you use your personality and energy to fight the real cause of world-wide billfish stock decline and that's high seas commercial long lining and purse seaming.

TB - I agree whole heartedly, and I work hard in this area also. But I spend over 50% of my time either helping under privileged kids or getting kids into the great outdoors. It is here, away from the values of Wall Street, and the values of Calcutta kill billfish tournaments and lie detector tests that trust, confidence, honor, code, and reliability are born. But your point is well taken.

Closing Comments - It is an unmitigated fact that about 95% of all blue water fishermen disagree with my stance on Calcutta billfish tournaments. I respect their opinion and I also think that for my own life, I am right and they are wrong. I do not like the world we live in. I do not like the morals by which we live our lives in general. And I do not believe that we should allow piles of money to influence every single thing we do. The wealthiest, most successful, most powerful, most influential people in the world fish Calcutta kill tournaments. It is disappointing to me that they cannot lead the next generation by example. A man's word is his bond. We do not need observers and lie detectors. None of us should call ourselves sport fishermen if we do it for a brown bag of money. Are we not, in essence, commercial fishermen. I leave you with the fact that my beliefs are unpopular and in many ways, undefendable. That's what makes the best and worst of Tred Barta. I thank all of you at Sportfishermen.com for not attacking me personally. This is a very healthy conversation, and one none of us can hide from.

[Deep C]

Jesus Mary and Joseph! Prostituting a daughter? The coffee stuck in my nasal passages will cool down long before I see a similarity between a suggestion like that and the very self regulated taking of a handfull of legal fish... Man! I know... I know... don't shoot the messenger but Tred... Every one is entitled to opinion and i respect that but come on man that correlation is a bit extreme.
Am I biased?... Damn right. Fishing the big buck tournaments is what I do to feed my family. I for one need to see the big bucks in play to keep the necessary cash flow to maintain the life my family has become accustomed to. I don't have the luxury of falling back on other cash reserves and just playing for the sake of playing. There is an entire community of guys like me that make up the bulk of these tournies.
Your argument somewhat resembles one that Mark Sosin and I got into once. He felt all tournaments "exploited fish for money..." Well my take was that he and I both were doing that same thing by collecting checks at that time by writing for our respective rags...
I pointed in my original response that I would rather see release shots on a big screen played for a crowd than a stack of dead fish but I'm not phased in the least if I do see a fish here and there decked.
Wasn't that long ago they even had sail kill tournies. In their day they were big bucks... It took time but they eventually became release formats... A long time ago I gave up selling my catch. I started writing about fishing for free. I stopped killing billfish for mounts or filling the racks with too many fish for show behind my charter boat... I've come a long way but damnit, I'm not going give up killing maybe 1 in 300 bills I do catch as long as theres a living in it.
Cancer? Maybe a zit...

[Russell A. Jost]

Some of your points are well taken, on the other hand some are not.

Argument #1- You compare the prostition of an underage girl by her family to killing a fish!! You lose all credibility on this point. There is no such moral comparison in my book.

Argument#2- Your work with under previleged kids is probably your most noted accomplisment. Keep up the good work.
But here you go again using the c.... word and what money does to people. Yes there may be a couple of participants that are adversely effected by the money but the vast majority are not. The money aspect raises the level preparedness, raises the level of competition, raises the level of comradeship, and these are in part the definition of sportsmanship.

Argument#3- The tournaments in NJ and Maryland already have limits well above the legal limit. Any tournament that doesn't should.

Argument#4- I also through they were illegal to sell. Maybe someone on here can shed some light on this.

Argument#5- You work hard in this area. Well lets see.. I know about your TV show, your work with charitable events, your writing for sportfishing magazine... but I have not seen anything about longlining or purse seaming.

In closing there is not much we agree on accept our right to disagree. Keep up the work you do for charity, it is the one thing I will remember about you.

[sportfishingusa]

i can honestly say i think this is a big smoke screen.. you claim you are against killing fish for money yet you fish, hunt and do whatever it is you feel you want to do.. wether it is right or wrong people do not judge you.

you get paid to fish, while your criticise people who are paying to fish and win money. i guarantee that there are side bets at your charity tournament between boats.. i know it has nothing to do with you but i am sure there is something going on.

it is all a big run around and people can get worked up over it, try to fix it, say it is wrong or cancerous, but the simple truth of the matter is that it is not..

we got to get our opinions and thoughts out of our heads and look deep into the problem and find a solution..

are the stocks stable!?! are there fish stil being taken in numbers?!? yes.. so what the hell..

[000's]

Tred,the underage prostitution thing is off the hook dude.We are all hypocrits thats for sure,but if you believe that the making of money is the problem,you need to give up all of the money you have made and are still making from all the killing you do and go to work for WalMart dude.Its a free country and it is legal,thats the point.