Are we Getting Sidetracked as Recreational Anglers Here?

[Mike15]

I was going to post this in the kill vs release format thread but decided to start a new thread becasue it really involves much more than just tournaments.

Why all of the sudden are we being pushed to use circle hooks? With all this talk of circle hooks, and Kill Vs Release tournaments brings up the question of are recreational J hooks in tournaments really the cause of the problem? Think about it. Anglers releasing fish caught on J hooks during tournaments probably realistically accounts for 0.00% of marlin mortality because these tournaments have strict minimum sizes anyway. And if it is a kill tournament it is going to be killed regardless of whether it was caught on a circle hook or a J hook. Not to mention that tournament fishing trip probably make up 5% of all recreational trips taken...Something to think about


Listen I support the use of circle hooks for some methods of fishing - that is not my question here. THe question here is what is REALLY the problem and what is REALLY a solution to this problem.

The real problem that many people are forgetting here is that obviously commercial fishing and in particular longlining is the main cause of marlin mortality and the reason we are in this situation today. Now that I think everyone would agree with this i'll ask another question. Is a mandatory circle hook ruling for tournament anglers really the solution to this problem????????????

The Average Joe who RELEASES a billfish caught on a J hook is not the problem here.

[Bert Rodgers]

I agree to a point. The push to make it law is feel good nonsense and a bone thrown to regulators. But the fact that circles have proven to work as advertised is a good thing.

Bert

[wickeditch]

i half to agree with mike, i fish both ends but when something is throwed out its always the rec guys thats gets nailed or something is trying to be pushed down the throats of the rec guys and half of the statistics that is used are not right and we have all seen this so where do we say its time for al the bs to stop. all know darn good and well its not the rec people that poeses the mortality rate on the billfish period.


just my 1 1/2 cents later shane

[Squidnation]

A few great points made. I have been keeping up with much of the information and gathered some facts and Opinions.

the study quoted in the circle hook paperwork we received at a "request for Comment" NOAA Fisheries meeting showed a grand total of 41 fish (Maybe 42 or 43) but still way too few to make an accurate assessment.

It is obvious that many more billfish are killed by longliners then by recs.

We have caught many many more bleeders with j-hooks then we have with circle hooks. Not saying that every bleeder dies or every circle hook fish lives but if a bleeder is cut in the gills it is almost certain death.

You are correct that the average joe realeasing a billfish is not the culprit but anytime we release a healthy billfish it helps. Can't argue with that. Everytime we release a helpless bleeder we help our own ego and consious just because we abided by the unwritten code of billfishing and the regs.

For now the circle hook rule is only for tournaments not the average joe funfishing.

Until the sportfishing community builds an official body to bond fishermen together to fight the commerical interest and the enviromentalist we will be on the short end of every fight. These other two communities are well organized. Sportfishermen have multiple organizations who bicker with eachother more then with the commercials and the enviromentalist.

[FishBlueWater]

I agree that Long Lining in some parts of the world is an issue. But here in the states they are very closing regulated way more then "the average Joe fishermen". And I have been on a few of them over the years and the majority of the fish that come up are alive and still green when landed. Any by catch "IE" billfish are cut off and released without even touching them. And I know of a few that have been using circle hooks for awhile now. Since they do a better job of hooking themselves (there isn't anyone to set the hook).
The use of circle hooks by Rec Fishermen isn't saying that it is they are hurting the population by not using them it is just one more way for everyone to do their part in the Conservation.
And I agree with Squid we need to join together with one group but not just the Rec fishermen we should join forces with the commercial guys. Because whether you want to see it or not we are on the same side fighting the same environmentalists. Any time we get new regulations set on us they get regs set on them also. Instead of always blaming Commercial fishermen for or limits or regulations getting cut we should work together to protect the fisheries we still have.

[Sterling]

There's an article in the current Marlin Magazine that says the switch to circle hooks could save 1300-2000 white marlin a year, in the US fishery.

Those numbers seem high to me but I can see where the numbers will add up and make some difference.

[Mike15]

Originally Posted by Sterling

There's an article in the current Marlin Magazine that says the switch to circle hooks could save 1300-2000 white marlin a year, in the US fishery.

Those numbers seem high to me but I can see where the numbers will add up and make some difference.

Yea and I can say that pigs will learn to fly too - Where is the data to support the idea that released marlin caught on J hooks kills 2000 whites a year that would not die if hooked on a circle hook? - THis data doesn't exist.

[Fritz]

Is this what you were looking for?

[Deep C]

The issue of circle hook burnt my ass for the longest time. I use em now and even like em. Not because I want to or because they are good for the fish. I use em cause I have to and that part still burns my ass. That 40 or so is but one thing that NMFS had to look at... They're slow to show though the one to the public that involved 2000 fish. In that one it was extremely detailed. All this talk about how much better the circle is for fish is a load of crap when dealing with real scenarios.
They labled hooks as C1 (Eagle Claw/ Mustad circle), C2( Owner Circle), and J (Mustad). At a 6- 10 second drop back window which is what most of us use, the "Undesireable incident rate" was as follows. C1= .47 and the J= .49. Virtually no difference! Heres the number from the C2 = .67 actually worse than J or circle, yet that hook is considered a circle by all concerned. The place that the J fared worse noticably was at a dropback of 15 or more seconds where its number shoots up to. 78. WHo the hell drops back more than 15 seconds? I sure as hell dont...
I oppose any time govt wants to take yet another right away. Yes we need to get on one page but with the way things are now we can't seem to get it together. Even chapters within our CCA and RFA and other organizations are more in tune with trying to out maneuver and out power struggle each other than getting on one page and pushing these regs back out of our face.

[Mike15]

Originally Posted by Deep C

They labled hooks as C1 (Eagle Claw/ Mustad circle), C2( Owner Circle), and J (Mustad). At a 6- 10 second drop back window which is what most of us use, the "Undesireable incident rate" was as follows. C1= .47 and the J= .49. Virtually no difference! Heres the number from the C2 = .67 actually worse than J or circle, yet that hook is considered a circle by all concerned. The place that the J fared worse noticably was at a dropback of 15 or more seconds where its number shoots up to. 78. WHo the hell drops back more than 15 seconds? I sure as hell dont...
.

Pretty soon they will be telling you when and when u cant set the hook - maybe then people will finally start to stick up for themselves.