Outboards Vs Diesels - No need for mythbusters here

[Squidnation]

We fished three days on a boat with a pair of outboards. Fishing was OK at best for us. First day we raised 7 sails and catch 3. Second day we raise 8 and catch 3 and jumped off a couple. third day we raised 15 and catch 7 and jumped off a couple. The fleet did a little better but we really were in the middle of the pack when it came to sails.

Now here is the kicker. Typically when I fish in guatemala I notice the boats are usually spread out. But the Marlin were pretty tightly packed and we all had to fish a relatively small piece of water. EVERY single Diesel boat saw between 2 and 4 stripeys or blues on ALL 3 days that we fished. Hell my buddy pinky was fishing on a boat of similiar size with the exact same teasers as us and went 2 for 2 on stripeys and I think saw a blue marlin on his small diesel boat. We never raised the first marlin in the spread all week. So is this coincidence or is there really something to this.

The crazy part is that I have caught marlin on the same boat with the same captain in the same waters before. But have never fished in a crowd like we did these 3 days. The captain and I discussed what could be the issue and he flat out told me it was the combination of the cat hulls and outboards. He also runs a 37 bertram with twin diesels. His opinion was that the cat hulls created way to much white water and couldn't effectively present a spread for marlin. These were his words. We need to troll faster for marlin. This cat boat creates way too much whitewater in the spread at higher speeds. He also runs a 31 mono hull with outboards and said that the boat doesn't create nearly the amount of white water and raises marlin more frequently. We couldn't use the 31 because it was broken.

Not sure I fully agree but I do know that I bought a diesel boat because of the economy and fishability but sometimes thought it was a myth (usually on the days I sucked).

So what say you guys? Was the captain just making excuses? (just to set the record straight, I would fish with this captain any day of the week, anywhere in the world) Was it just not our turn 3 days in a row in the mist of the best striped marlin bite in quite a while for this fleet? Should we have done something different? we trolled different spreads, speeds, lengths of bait, n-a-k-e-d, skirted everything but a straight up lure spread. Oh and by the way another outboard got so frustrated he switched to an all lure pattern and managed to raise one stripey.

[FAT CAT MX]

I might have some insight on this, as I've been fishing an outboard catamaran here in Baja for 10 years. I also fish on a lot of diesel powered mono hulled boats.

Generally speaking I feel that there is a big difference between the two types of motors, with the diesels having the advantage. We do a lot of sight casting to tailing striped marlin here and you can run a diesel boat right on top of the fish and they pay it no attention, but try it with an outboard powered boat and the fish will sound every time. Even changing the RPMs on the outboard will cause them to leave. I think the lower "thump" sound of the diesel is more natural sounding to the fish, but no one has ever asked the fish, so who really knows?

I also think that the diesels will raise more billfish (not necessarily more fish) on the troll. But, I don't think the diesel advantage is as important when trolling.

As far as the cat goes, I've adopted my technics to compensate for the differences in the wake and am usually able to hold my own with the conventional boats as far as catch rates go.

Outboards make more white water than an inboard boat because the exhaust exits through the prop. On a catamaran the engines are located at the outside corners, so the motors' white water is combined with the hulls' white water and pretty much screws up what is normally the sweet spot/clear water area on a conventional hull. That doesn't mean there is NO sweet spot though, it's just located in a different area.

What I've found is the white water from the motors and hulls can be used to your advantage by providing a contrasting background for you spread. But, you need to move your baits outside the white water, or below it.

If you'd like I can come down to Costa Rica and teach you how to do it. My wife's a tica and I love the place.

OOOPS!! I just noticed you were talking about Guatemala, not Costa Rica.

[tolbard]

Thank for putting the blame on the cat's. I was thinking It was Me. Still a good time Bill.

[Squidnation]

Thank for putting the blame on the cat's. I was thinking It was Me. Still a good time Bill.

I was blaming the lack of raises on the boat. But the ones we raised were your fault. well, you and capitano sancochero

[TunaTeaser1]

I fished on an outboard pretty much every trip this year, a 29 Regulator. Only fished the viking 5 or 6 times, never when the billfish bite was good.

May full moon out of Oregon Inlet we went 1-2 on blue marlin to add to our limit of tuna and a few gaffers. The marlins were very concentrated around the 400 line and there were 8-9 diesel charter boats there, with us being the only outboard. The bite was awesome. Sea Toy and some other boats had several encounters, I think they caught 2 or 3. We hooked 2, caught 1. This seemed to be consistent with all the big diesel boats.


June full moon (26th) we fished again on the Regulator and ended up just south of the 000s out of Oregon Inlet. Caught 1 blue and 1-2 whites. We caught the blue, set back and immediately hooked a caught white. Again, this was in a group of diesel boats and we had as good or better marlin action then many other boats around us...

BUT...

September White Marlin fishing with a lot of boat pressure, we consistently got SMOKED by the fleet. Very frustrating, and all I can figure is that it was because we were on an outboard boat.

September 6th, we ran 76 miles from OI Seabuoy to around the 300 line and was fishing in a large group of tourney rigged boats. Now, going into it I didn't expect to raise as many fish as these boats with electric teasers and dredges, but I did think we would raise more than we did, which was disappointing. Our goal was to try and catch 10, which considering the numbers people were putting up, it seemed very doable at the time. Instead, we caught 3. This was the day that Biopsea caught 42, pelican with 26, obsession 24, trophy hunter 23, the Viking factory boat was lighting it up too along with many many others. We fished right next to all of these boats pulling 2 teasers, a 2 tier ballyhoo dredge, and 6 dink baits. Trying to pull two dredges on that boat is counterproductive for us. We went 3-4 and probably raised an additional 2 fish. At one point, we watched the Viking boat hook like 4 or 5 fish to our right and the Pelican hook a couple to our immediate left. We did not raise any fish. Things like this happened several times throughout the day and was extremely frustrating for me at least. I'll take 3 fish any day, but I think you could have dragged green machines behind a diesel boat and caught more than that on this day.

September 25th, the fleet as a whole only caught like 30 fish, and we caught 4 just north of the 000s. As most of the boats moved up the line, we stayed put, did not have boat pressure, and picked up 4 fish, which we were very satisfied with given the conditions.

Conclusion- Based on this year, I don't think we had trouble competing with Blue Marlins when we pulled plugs and hawaiian eyes in boat pressure but with Whites it was very evident that inboard boats had an advantage. When we dredge fished in areas with a lot of boat pressure, we simply could not keep up...

[sanchoco]

Do not have any exp. with cat hulls but remember 1 large thing. Guatemala gets a run of striped marlin about as often as Florida freezes over. Yes it happens but not that often. Blue's you may need to troll faster but the stripers eat at sailfish speeds great. Not many of the Guatemalan Captains have much exp with stripers and it sounds like the capt was just making excuses for something he knows little about.

saying that does not mean that he is a bad capt and making excuses for your bad luck just that he has little experience with striped marlin because of where he fishes. In the past 10 years there may have been less than 100 striped marlin released in Guatemala by the whole fleet.

I have fished for Stripers in Mexico for the same 10 years and released over 1500 in that time. All caught at 6 - 6.5kts with teasers and ballyhoo. The same speed and spread that I fish in Guatemala for the sails. Just finished a 2 day trip on my contender 31 and released 14 for 21 stripes at 6 kts. I don't think it was a speed issue that you had.

[Squidnation]

great insight sanchoco. He said he had very little experience with the stripeys. But we should have raised a couple by accident. I think we troll for them at 7 knots in galapagos. I forgot what the captain said but I thought it was pretty fast. We slowed down to troll some dredges I brought and raised quite a few more on the first day at the slower speed with the dredges. I thought I brought something important to the table and the next day couldn't raise a floating turd at the slower speed. pulled out the dredges and speed up and they came in droves.

The cat boat has caught its share of blues and we had a run where we caught them a few days in a row when others hadnt but we weren't in a crowd. But we fished pretty tight to the other boats for the first time since I started fishing there and it seemed like we were being ignored by the marlin altogether. Didn't matter what speed. I wish I would of thought of moving the entire spread back out of the whitewater. we didn't try that. Not sure why I didn't think of that or no one else did either. I know some of the CR guys have great success trolling there stuff much further back.

[Patudo]

Bill just kind of said what I was thinking that if stripeys respond well to sailfish tactics, would it matter that his captain had little experience with stripeys? Would you expect to be competitive in an outboard boat against a bunch of big diesel SF fishing in close proximity to you like TunaTeaser describes? I also have little experience of cat hulls but from what I've seen the closer that boats are fishing to one another the harder it can be to compete with the text book big diesel battle wagons. Example a few years back the big 78 garlington Dreamin' On in Cabo Verde was raising so many more fish in the same area we were all fishing than anybody else, including some very experienced skippers, it was unreal. It got to the point I felt maybe we should leave the bank and fish somewhere else we were not directly competing against that big blue hulled pied piper... You often tend to be more spread out when lurefishing and that helps a bit, but in that situation there was a good mass of fish stacked up on the bank and as a result we were all in there together.

You could write what I know about stripe marlin fishing on my eyeball without hurting me but if they were popping up on the surface Cabo style throwing live baits at them may have been an option if you simply could not bring em up on the troll? if I remember rightly thats how most of the big #s in cabo are made, Bill your thoughts?

[Hatterized]

can remember back in late 70's early 80's....a 30' Penn Yan SF named Free Spirit w/ gas twins...that had tunnel drive (which is much like todays prop pockets) that boat RAISED fish when many could not get the skunk out of the box.....even back then it was all about the "whitewater" she churned and how her eyecandy danced.

[Squidnation]

Bill just kind of said what I was thinking that if stripeys respond well to sailfish tactics, would it matter that his captain had little experience with stripeys? Would you expect to be competitive in an outboard boat against a bunch of big diesel SF fishing in close proximity to you like TunaTeaser describes? I also have little experience of cat hulls but from what I've seen the closer that boats are fishing to one another the harder it can be to compete with the text book big diesel battle wagons. Example a few years back the big 78 garlington Dreamin' On in Cabo Verde was raising so many more fish in the same area we were all fishing than anybody else, including some very experienced skippers, it was unreal. It got to the point I felt maybe we should leave the bank and fish somewhere else we were not directly competing against that big blue hulled pied piper... You often tend to be more spread out when lurefishing and that helps a bit, but in that situation there was a good mass of fish stacked up on the bank and as a result we were all in there together.

You could write what I know about stripe marlin fishing on my eyeball without hurting me but if they were popping up on the surface Cabo style throwing live baits at them may have been an option if you simply could not bring em up on the troll? if I remember rightly thats how most of the big #s in cabo are made, Bill your thoughts?

We didn't have live bait. I guess we could have brought some on the next day. But I will be honest. I hate live baiting billfish with a passion. Its all about the bite that excites me. seeing them pop up in the spread is probably the most exciting moment I can imagine when it comes to fishing. Maybe thats why I haven't high tailed it to cabo although I think I may give it a try soon.

We have raised as many as 57 stripeys in a single day in galapagos and in an outboard at that. But when we fish the galapagos we are usually the ONLY boat fishing the grounds. I think I have seen 1 boat on one occassion in 10 days of fishing time.

My friend dove hunt has fished a cat boat out of OC and says the captain will pretty much completely avoid the crowd even if they are biting good. He said the diesels just crush him. My friend Gunnar has had phenominal days on the whites on his cat boat. One day in particular I can remember we had a horrible day on my boat in the crowd. We watch the blanks brothers catch 9 and a few other flat tear them up. We raised one. Later that night I spoke to gunnar and he caught 8 and some tunas and a wahoo and missed a blue. I asked what the ticket was and he said he never came close to the fleet. He said he couldn't compete with the diesels. He just bought a beautiful twin diesel this year.