Missing fish and missing the boat on circle hooks - Page 2

Flatdog · 08-03-2008, 06:00 PM

Guys I might just be "barking" out of the left field here but here goes...
From small scale, odd "shaped hooks" that I have fished for many years far to many to talk about, I have found that Large "shaped" hook's cannot be very different from small ones, the only secret is that they ALL repeat ALL have to turn within the mouth Of the Fish and must be razor sharp period!!!!!!!
If You fish as most do, a very heavy leader or wire, try Tying or building a loop on the hook, before you crimp it up this will allow "movement" of the hook, we are looking for a roll of the hook here. Another way would be to lock it up totally! Stiff rig the trace, though With trolling this might make things swim untrue, there seems to be no half ground here stiff or slack, if stiff give a 3 foot stiff rig, stiff I mean stiff, no movement between hook and 3-4 feet of connection, to the best swivel money can buy, but you still need to have the hook rotate, so form a loop at the end of your "stiff" rig and attach to the swivel, obviously "reel" side of this " stiff pole" thats running through the water , bait will swim very true, IF this is not for you then try supple, thats from the word go! Hook To whatever, Big loop at hook, Lots of movement of the hook., that hook has to turn ! and it must still turn at speed, Eg 5kns/8kns, this would have to be a new area of playing around, speed v length of rig, "stiff" or "Soft" Times distance from bait! plus in line weight
Quick fix in my mind would be to buy hooks with a swivel attached, or a solid ring, this would work both ways, you could run this stiff or soft rigged. You have to get that hook to turn and "prick" the fish, this will make the fishes head turn, with the feel of the hook and movement of the boat panic will set in. We are looking for and NEED that first bolt of the fish in the opposite direction from the rod, set the drag to medium not "OFF" or soft!! Strike is good setting less 50%...... As she pulls away the hook will set itself against the drag of the boat and reel. FISH ON
Just reel, do not "STRIKE"!!! you are trapping/hunting not fishing "funny thing to say but true"!! Someone needs to work the numbers as to speed, drag ratio, weight of lure, as this will cross all aspects of "shaped" hooks trolling, be it lure or bait.
Any "Hook" of an "ODD SHAPE" is made and designed to "TURN" make it "SHARP and TURN" you will hook up!
No turn ........ your fault.
Just my 2 cent worth as to why you guys are not coming tight.

last thought anyone try a tuna trap, with big circles for marlin might buy that 2 seconds for the hook to turn......

Small Boat Junkie · 08-09-2008, 06:33 PM

The key to circle hooks is the count. Aleast 8-10 secs . Then reel to him with the rod pointed at the fish until it comes tight, then lift the tip. The hook does all the work. 8-10 sec is a long time when line is peeling out. I feel the past 2 years I have had more hook ups than before. Maybe I'm getting bretter at it but I think it is the hooks. Works like a charm in Costa and Mexico. Just my two cents worth.
Jimmy

Fritz · 08-12-2008, 05:16 PM

You can all fight it if you want to, but the fact is circle hooks work and will improve you hookup ratio. We have three ways of rigging them and each way is specific to the placement in the spread. All three ways have proven extremely effective. Let em' eat in freespool, push the drag up and wind till you come tight. It really can't get any easier.

Succession · 08-26-2008, 07:25 PM

Yikes 8 to 10 seconds. I have fished in Ven, Costa, Guat, Mexico... several times and I have been taught a 3 maybe 4 second drop back. I have run and mated on several boats who have had experianced mates drop back for 7 to 10 seconds and missed the fish on circle hooks. Then I get a shot with a 3 second drop back and have yet to miss one on a circle hook this year and did in the 85% range over the last few years. Now the long rigger bites seem to lower my percentage due to not being able to see the fish sometimes before it bites.

Now watch I will miss a few this weekend running a boat

.

Also I have seen the same anglers and mates raise the rod tip when they see the fish start jumping. I learned from Ron Hamlin in Huatuco, MX the hard way about this subject.

I was going down to Huatuco, MX with a friend about 10 years ago who was an owner of the Capt'n Hook at the time. He had asked Ron to bring the boat around to Huatuco to check out the fishery and to help teach the charter boats about conservation of billfish. See these guys killed everything and Ron was trying to show them circle hooks and that they could make a great living as long as they did not kill the billfish. So on our first day out my Friends wife is looking for another world record billfish on fly rod. The plan was that if Susan missed I would get a shot. Well one comes in, Susan misses, I drop back on the sail, lock it up, real slow till it comes tight, see the fish start jumping, raise the rod tip (What I thought was slow) and all you could see in slow motion was the bait come flying out of its mouth. For the next 15 minutes I proceeded to get my A$$$ chewed out by Ron Hamlin. Man he tore me a new one till I had had enough.

So the moral of the story is "Keep the rod tip pointed at the fish till it really starts jumping and you have it tight then slowly raise the rod up to fight it".

Ever time I fish with circle hooks and am coming tight with a fish. I think of that toung lashing by Ron. Will never fish with him again, but did get something out of it.

Finnseeker · 08-28-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squidnation

"well we missed a white today on the circle"

"We had 3 up on the flats and short rigger and missed all 3, screw this circle hook stuff"

"it was about as frustrating a day on the billfish as I have experience in 10 years, missed 3 on the circles"

"Screw it, I ain't doing it no more. I can't catch fish on these circle hooks"

All quotes from guys I have spoken to in the past month. My first question to everyone of these guys have been - How often do you pull circle hooks? Oh - we only pull them during tournaments. HUH? Well I'm not Benjiman Eintsein but in the imortal words of Allen Iverson, "Were talkin about practice" Folks if you plan on tournament fishing and you haven't made the change to using circle hooks almost full time, you may as just write the check out to the guys that have.

There may be some learning curve frustration but get it out of the way now, not in two weeks at the WMO, or PC or MA500. Better yet get your tournament crew and go charter one of the boats that have made the committment to circles years ago, not weeks or days ago.

On another note - this just popped in my head as well. Some guys have told me they are not gonna pull circle hooks. They are just gonna troll big plugs at 8 knots and fish for blue marlin. Let me ask this question. How often do you pull big plugs at 8 knots for blue marlin. Oh, we're just gonna do it in the tournament. We usually bait on j's.

hmmmmmm - some get iverson back on the phone

Squid - practice makes perfect and been using circles exclusively now for many mnay years. There are a lot of variables to consider for a successful circle hook ratio and it's far superior to any j-hook.

Please dont tell me you using circles on lures, Im yet to find anyone that has any success with these vs J-hooks on lures.

Dead bait and live bait they lethal and tournment winners. We have won a tournment each year using circles from Brazil, Mexico, South Africa.

You welcome anytime to fly down to Cabo, id take you out and show you the difference and success Circles vs J hooks.

Rigging, drag setting, and run time/strike all crutial to a good crew and making this work.

tom@marlinstar · 08-31-2008, 01:37 AM

One thing to remember is to think about the fish you're chasing.You have to consider the strike and feeding characteristics of the species as this will change some of your timing. Example; live baiting Striped Marlin in Cali...... I have seen Stripers pick up a live mackie and swim around with it like a dog with a bone. A three count would be a little short and result in a pulled bait. Now, obviously each fish hunts and attacks differently, but understanding feeding habits does help. This and being blessed to enjoy a fair amount of water time can only help. I personally think circles have made fishing easier......have you ever had someone pretend they are Babe Ruth trying to strike a fish with too much line in the water fishing a j-hook? Dangerous and comical at the same time.....

08-09-2008, 06:33 PM	#12
Small Boat Junkie I just got squirted with ballyhoo poop Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 43 Credits: 4,842.1	c-hooks The key to circle hooks is the count. Aleast 8-10 secs . Then reel to him with the rod pointed at the fish until it comes tight, then lift the tip. The hook does all the work. 8-10 sec is a long time when line is peeling out. I feel the past 2 years I have had more hook ups than before. Maybe I'm getting bretter at it but I think it is the hooks. Works like a charm in Costa and Mexico. Just my two cents worth. Jimmy __________________ 24 Hydrasport

08-12-2008, 05:16 PM	#13
Fritz Anthony's Ark is a blowboater Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fish out of Cape May Posts: 299 Credits: 1,534.1 Boat: Leprechaun Home Port: Cape May Occupation: business owner	Circle work! You can all fight it if you want to, but the fact is circle hooks work and will improve you hookup ratio. We have three ways of rigging them and each way is specific to the placement in the spread. All three ways have proven extremely effective. Let em' eat in freespool, push the drag up and wind till you come tight. It really can't get any easier.

08-26-2008, 07:25 PM	#14
Succession Yep, your gonna need stitches Join Date: May 2007 Location: Virginia Beach, VA & Outer Banks, NC Posts: 98 Credits: 5,038.2 Boat: Succession Home Port: Nags Head, NC Best Catch: My wonderful Wife and Children! Occupation: Charter Captain	Yikes 8 to 10 seconds. I have fished in Ven, Costa, Guat, Mexico... several times and I have been taught a 3 maybe 4 second drop back. I have run and mated on several boats who have had experianced mates drop back for 7 to 10 seconds and missed the fish on circle hooks. Then I get a shot with a 3 second drop back and have yet to miss one on a circle hook this year and did in the 85% range over the last few years. Now the long rigger bites seem to lower my percentage due to not being able to see the fish sometimes before it bites. Now watch I will miss a few this weekend running a boat. Also I have seen the same anglers and mates raise the rod tip when they see the fish start jumping. I learned from Ron Hamlin in Huatuco, MX the hard way about this subject. I was going down to Huatuco, MX with a friend about 10 years ago who was an owner of the Capt'n Hook at the time. He had asked Ron to bring the boat around to Huatuco to check out the fishery and to help teach the charter boats about conservation of billfish. See these guys killed everything and Ron was trying to show them circle hooks and that they could make a great living as long as they did not kill the billfish. So on our first day out my Friends wife is looking for another world record billfish on fly rod. The plan was that if Susan missed I would get a shot. Well one comes in, Susan misses, I drop back on the sail, lock it up, real slow till it comes tight, see the fish start jumping, raise the rod tip (What I thought was slow) and all you could see in slow motion was the bait come flying out of its mouth. For the next 15 minutes I proceeded to get my A$$$ chewed out by Ron Hamlin. Man he tore me a new one till I had had enough. So the moral of the story is "Keep the rod tip pointed at the fish till it really starts jumping and you have it tight then slowly raise the rod up to fight it". Ever time I fish with circle hooks and am coming tight with a fish. I think of that toung lashing by Ron. Will never fish with him again, but did get something out of it.

08-31-2008, 01:37 AM	#16
tom@marlinstar Hardcore fishacholic Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NEWPORT BEACH,CA Posts: 82 Credits: 5,400.5	One thing to remember is to think about the fish you're chasing.You have to consider the strike and feeding characteristics of the species as this will change some of your timing. Example; live baiting Striped Marlin in Cali...... I have seen Stripers pick up a live mackie and swim around with it like a dog with a bone. A three count would be a little short and result in a pulled bait. Now, obviously each fish hunts and attacks differently, but understanding feeding habits does help. This and being blessed to enjoy a fair amount of water time can only help. I personally think circles have made fishing easier......have you ever had someone pretend they are Babe Ruth trying to strike a fish with too much line in the water fishing a j-hook? Dangerous and comical at the same time..... __________________ www.marlinstar.com

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08-03-2008, 06:00 PM	#11
Flatdog Sit down Shut up And fish Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: London England Posts: 596 Credits: 1,586.0 Boat: Fallen in love with Strike 37 walk around though the 44 would be the best option Home Port: weymouth Best Catch: 210kg cat fish rio de morte brazil Amazon delta Occupation: At the moment sales	Guys I might just be "barking" out of the left field here but here goes... From small scale, odd "shaped hooks" that I have fished for many years far to many to talk about, I have found that Large "shaped" hook's cannot be very different from small ones, the only secret is that they ALL repeat ALL have to turn within the mouth Of the Fish and must be razor sharp period!!!!!!! If You fish as most do, a very heavy leader or wire, try Tying or building a loop on the hook, before you crimp it up this will allow "movement" of the hook, we are looking for a roll of the hook here. Another way would be to lock it up totally! Stiff rig the trace, though With trolling this might make things swim untrue, there seems to be no half ground here stiff or slack, if stiff give a 3 foot stiff rig, stiff I mean stiff, no movement between hook and 3-4 feet of connection, to the best swivel money can buy, but you still need to have the hook rotate, so form a loop at the end of your "stiff" rig and attach to the swivel, obviously "reel" side of this " stiff pole" thats running through the water , bait will swim very true, IF this is not for you then try supple, thats from the word go! Hook To whatever, Big loop at hook, Lots of movement of the hook., that hook has to turn ! and it must still turn at speed, Eg 5kns/8kns, this would have to be a new area of playing around, speed v length of rig, "stiff" or "Soft" Times distance from bait! plus in line weight Quick fix in my mind would be to buy hooks with a swivel attached, or a solid ring, this would work both ways, you could run this stiff or soft rigged. You have to get that hook to turn and "prick" the fish, this will make the fishes head turn, with the feel of the hook and movement of the boat panic will set in. We are looking for and NEED that first bolt of the fish in the opposite direction from the rod, set the drag to medium not "OFF" or soft!! Strike is good setting less 50%...... As she pulls away the hook will set itself against the drag of the boat and reel. FISH ON Just reel, do not "STRIKE"!!! you are trapping/hunting not fishing "funny thing to say but true"!! Someone needs to work the numbers as to speed, drag ratio, weight of lure, as this will cross all aspects of "shaped" hooks trolling, be it lure or bait. Any "Hook" of an "ODD SHAPE" is made and designed to "TURN" make it "SHARP and TURN" you will hook up! No turn ........ your fault. Just my 2 cent worth as to why you guys are not coming tight. last thought anyone try a tuna trap, with big circles for marlin might buy that 2 seconds for the hook to turn......