Kill Tournaments vs. No Kill Tournaments

[searich]

Bert,

Didn't mean to imply that participants can't enter both formats and still have a conservation ethic. Sure, I'm definitely biased but aren't we all? We believe what we believe for our own reasons and voicing an opinion should be taken as just that... an opinion, one that may or may not fit in with yours or others beliefs. All I was trying to do was get a sense of other anglers opinions on the matter and it obviously touched on some nerves. I don't claim to be an expert but I'm much more involved and educated in regards to the issue then being a "member" of any group or reader of any magazine. Where am I going in this thread? Just looking for other opinions... maybe I'll learn something I didn't know before, maybe I'll look at things in a different way as a result, maybe I'll stick with my gut feeling about it.. isn't that the point of any thread?

C-Rod.... I totally agree that release formats can lead to dishonesty/bribery.... guess we just have to see how it comes out in the end pinning our hopes on integrity. I appreciate your willingness to continue on the release format trend as I'm sure many others are. Bravo on turning in the jackass that tried to make it all about money any way possible, I'd like to believe that most would have done the same thing, as naive as some may tell me it is.

[Finnseeker]

Originally Posted by Deep C

A lot of guys moaned when they went to the enhanced camera requirements but I am all for it... One of our fish at Miami had leader in hand pretty quick. Pic was no good and it took 14 more minutes to get that fish back and take a pic that met all the criteria... Takes some getting used to, driving the boat and snapping the stills but I like how it tightens up on wishy washy releases.
As for observers being bought and sold... it does happen. Had one years ago walk aboard and ask what the top prize was. I told him and he came back with a number that would "win" it for me. I had his ass on the dock and being lead to the comittee by his ear in a New York second... That was a fairly small event. With millions at stake I'm sure the potential is even greater...

Good for you C.................... hand him over to me. Some of us fairly compete and do it by the book then there is a guy like you found ..........I say " off with his head" like they did in the old days. I wonder how many other times he has been an observer and did this.

Im going to make a point here that im finding now in our events. Many teams, many anglers feel more engaged in the tournaments now as they all having parts to play now in getting the release so the observer can see it, the mate can leader it and the camera guy on the boat can capture it and the Captain has to work again or harder to recover if a fish takes off and the shot was no good to re release and make it count.
Many have told me they more engaged and play a bigger role now, somebody has to document the release, photograph it etc and call it in on the radio. Since only 6 anglers are permitted it majkes it a lot more work and fun for all involved.
Trolling around my live tuna on downriggers and on the surface all day waiting for a big blue to nibble can be slow for some.

[Deep C]

Normally I have a back up camera man but he couldn't make Miami and at the Bacardi he would up being the angler on a couple of the fish so I got to drive and come off the helm for the shot then back on. Gives me another chore but like I said I don't mind... With those chips checked in the detail they are now and with the intializing and ending shot there is no need for an observer and all but impossible to cheat...
Cheating I will say though is rare as can be. I ran CAST for a few years and we did the inspections and stuff for over two hundred tiurnaments while I was there. I saw only one clear case and a couple stretching the leader max during that whole time. More issues with tourney organizers than anglers.

[Sterling]

I don't agree with the poll questions so I'll stay out of that. Seems like more of a statement than a poll.

A big-dollar kill tournament, conservation isn't really my bag.

I think you can be for kill tournaments and also be for conservation. Here's why.
Recreational anglers release almost 100% of the billfish we catch, to support conservation. We don't accept someone taking one outside of a tournament and that has made a difference. We also know that we can allow a small number to be landed under controlled circumstances without impact. By allowing this in a limited number of tournaments, with sound rules and minimums, it gives the chance to take a billfish to anyone willing to participate and it does so in a very controlled manner.

We could ban it completely or we can allow anyone some chance, through a tournament, without measurable impact. Think of the dollars and votes from billfishermen to help stop the real threats to billfish. The tournaments help keep a lot of people involved in the sport. I believe the billfish population will be better off with the tournaments and the interest they raise to support these fish.

[frankypettolina]

I voted for all of them, because each statement is a little bit true. I fish all of those kind of events.

I also commercial fish for giants (although this winter I may have been up for Bluefin tuna Conservationist of the year )

I am a fisherman. I fish for fun, profit, competition, the helluvit, you name it.

[Bert Rodgers]

Originally Posted by searich

Bert,

Didn't mean to imply that participants can't enter both formats and still have a conservation ethic. Sure, I'm definitely biased but aren't we all? We believe what we believe for our own reasons and voicing an opinion should be taken as just that... an opinion, one that may or may not fit in with yours or others beliefs. All I was trying to do was get a sense of other anglers opinions on the matter and it obviously touched on some nerves. I don't claim to be an expert but I'm much more involved and educated in regards to the issue then being a "member" of any group or reader of any magazine. Where am I going in this thread? Just looking for other opinions... maybe I'll learn something I didn't know before, maybe I'll look at things in a different way as a result, maybe I'll stick with my gut feeling about it.. isn't that the point of any thread?

C-Rod.... I totally agree that release formats can lead to dishonesty/bribery.... guess we just have to see how it comes out in the end pinning our hopes on integrity. I appreciate your willingness to continue on the release format trend as I'm sure many others are. Bravo on turning in the jackass that tried to make it all about money any way possible, I'd like to believe that most would have done the same thing, as naive as some may tell me it is.

Fair enough, the original poll questions seemed to indicate a less than open mind on the issue.

I understand the release every one sentament. Personnally I haven't killed a billfish for years and unless one comes to the boat that qualifies for some serious coin I'm not likely to. But looking at the big picture the truth is (at least on the East Coast) $$ tournaments are rich in tradition and have a valuable place in our sport. Truth also is, as much as we love platitudes such about leading by example and united fronts, comercial interests and especially foriegn comercial interests don't give a damn about our example and our solidarity and I suspect laugh at it.

In the end it actually hurts our position with the regulators who need more than ever to focus on stemming the large scale depletion caused by the real culprits. By equivocating we give tacit admission that we are the problem, and that allows justifications of meaningless recreational restrictions while the $$$ lobbys influence regulators to turn a blind eye to the real problem.

A true "United Front" would be to stand firm and demand that the #s be looked at for what they are and the fact remains that the few fish killed in $ tournies DOES NOT have an effect on the resource.

And again I ask, ethiclly speaking, what is the difference between gaffing a marlin and gaffing a tuna or dolphin? And what is the difference between taking a marlin in a tournement and drifting off S. Florida at night and bringing home a fat swordfish?

Just sayin

Bert

[Team Boat Show Direct]

Guys we could go on about this forever. Life is grey. Not black and white. Jesus was a fisherman, he knew what it was like to cast His Nets. Please no waste . Wherever "money "especially big dinero is involved people are going ta bend the rules. Makes people ugly Back to Karma people, why am I preachin??? must be after midnight lol!!

[Bert Rodgers]

Originally Posted by Team Boat Show Direct

Guys we could go on about this forever. Life is grey. Not black and white. Jesus was a fisherman, he knew what it was like to cast His Nets. Please no waste . Wherever "money "especially big dinero is involved people are going ta bend the rules. Makes people ugly Back to Karma people, why am I preachin??? must be after midnight lol!!

Maybe they should eliminate the payout at the PGA Masters too.

Bert

[Phat Mann]

I got to say both are fine.

Who can ague that the possibility of winning the big one, being lucky enough to do so, is not a thrill. The few fish brought in do not diminish the conservation efforts in the kill tourney.

In fact, we really like the Dare Co boat builder challenge with no kill allowed. True competition with some of best boats around. No obsevers, benefits charity, great fun.

Both have their place.

One would like to think cheaters don't exist, but...

[JMiner]

Originally Posted by Sterling

I don't agree with the poll questions so I'll stay out of that. Seems like more of a statement than a poll.


I think you can be for kill tournaments and also be for conservation. Here's why.
Recreational anglers release almost 100% of the billfish we catch, to support conservation. We don't accept someone taking one outside of a tournament and that has made a difference. We also know that we can allow a small number to be landed under controlled circumstances without impact. By allowing this in a limited number of tournaments, with sound rules and minimums, it gives the chance to take a billfish to anyone willing to participate and it does so in a very controlled manner.

We could ban it completely or we can allow anyone some chance, through a tournament, without measurable impact. Think of the dollars and votes from billfishermen to help stop the real threats to billfish. The tournaments help keep a lot of people involved in the sport. I believe the billfish population will be better off with the tournaments and the interest they raise to support these fish.

Very well said the tournamnets are the best exposure for billfish conservancy. out of 300 fish reported 10-12 boated. Every fish weighed goes to feeding someone. If you ban kill tournamnets you will see a serious decline in participation up north. Running 3 hours each way to fish against guys that do this everyday never mind the cost of entry is only attractive because we have a shot to find that one fish. Regarding the cheating, by simply adding video cameras and madatory polygraph for every boat winning money within 2 hours of the last tourney day will eliminate it. At the WSC the committe boat announced every boat name that won money and told them to report for testing before returning to the marina the final day and they did the polys. Case closed. you don't show up you are out. The problem at the WMO is allowing Seems pretty simple to me.