IGFA Letter to NMFS regarding Circle Hooks

[Squidnation]

Marty - I don't think I have ever deleted a post in the forum. No reason to start now.

I think the IGFA should maintain records. I also think world records are a good thing and a benefit for our sport. But here is my definition of a true world record. BIGGEST FISH (species) CAUGHT on rod and reel period end of story. All else IMO is bullshit. I don't really care that joe blow caught a 4lb 2oz Giant trevelly on 2lb tippet. That is not a World Record fish - even by IGFA standards. Somewhere in the IGFA rules it states that any fish submitted for a record should be considered above a typical size for that specie.........or something like that.

I also don't subscribe that the IGFA keeps these records for good of the offshore community and the public interest. Here is why. Marty, you are not a member of the IGFA correct? Can you please tell me who holds the record for the 8lb class adult male angler for bluefish. The answer is you can't. Because you are not a member of the IGFA. So in essence the IGFA keeps these records for the sake of its members. Screw you if you are not a member - you can't look it up. BS.

Lets say that you invite one of the kids of the Boys and Girls Club to go fishing and through some good luck that kid catches a 9lb croaker. Holy Matanza batman - that fish must be a record. You need to submit that fish to the IGFA for a record. I bet its a world record. All you need to do is go online and fill out an application and send that application along with a picture of the fish, angler and rod and reel, alng with a line sample and the terminal tackle set up along with a Check for $35...................................whoops - penalty - the kid doesn't have $35 actually $50 since he is not a member. Oh well, nice fish buddy but it is no longer in consideration for a record. Bullshit once agin. The IGFA shouldn't charge anything for records submitted by Jr. and why does it cost more for an non member to submit for a record (that is kept for the good of the fishing community and general public) then it does for a member. Does the IGFA have to do more research for fish caught by non-members?

As far as the circle hook thing. The IGFA merely sent the NMFS a letter consisting of their OPINION as to what a non-offset circle hook is, nothing more. Actually the NMFS didn't even take the recommendation and left the rule so open ended that they didn't even write a definition of a non-offset circle hook. I personally think that circle hooks are great and everybody should use them as much as possible. Should it be a law............nope.

BTW marty, the circle law only applies to HMS permitted vessels. Each country does have its own rules and they have nothing to do with our rules. I can use all the j-hooks I want in venezuela and many other countries.

[Squidnation]

WHAT?

Marty I think you need to reread what I wrote. The intent of what I wrote was that I basically couldn't agree with you more. Except for the part where you thought everyone is governed by the IGFA and NMFS and that all records were no good. I even added other stuff that I didn't like about the IGFA.

My reference to the kid from the boys and girls club had no ill intentional at all. An under privilidged kid catches a potentional record and can't submit it because he doesn't have $50. THAT is 100% bullshit in my opinion. It should be free and that kid should have every right to submit for that record. What is classless about that statement?

BTW - and this just came to me. Tournaments are not mandated to follow IGFA rules. I think they just choose to do so because it is easier to direct someone to a pre printed set of rules then it is to rewrite the rules for every single tournament. Many tournaments use the blueprint IGFA rules but then add and substract as they see fit. The OC Tuna Tournament is a perfect is example. They follow all IGFA rules except for hooked spreader bars being allowed and you can hand off a rod to an angler.

As for not being able to see the records. I wasn't faulting you for not being a member. I was saying that the records should be veiwable by everyone - not just members.


GEEEEZ

[Fritz]

I have been reading the posts and would like to add my two cents worth to you Marty. I don't know you, but I read your stuff and just like every other author here sometimes it has value and sometimes it doesn't. This time I think you are way off base:
1. Just because you choose to make your living on the water does not entitle you to have more of a say in how things are done or more access to that resource. No matter what we choose to do for a living, we all have to play by the rules and the rules are meant to be for the good of all. If you don't like it, you work to change it for the better or find another line of work.
2. Kill giants to put food on the table? Pallease as you would say. That makes you no better than the Japanese, long liners, foreign fleets etc. This may piss a few guys off, but facts are facts. Every one of these fish that is killed is one less breeder to rebuild. I have not fished for a Bluefin in about 5 years for that reason. I am older enoough to remember shoals of feeding tuna and I hope they may return one day.
3. Are you really running down the IGFA? Your opinion in my opinion sucks. I am not a member, but I give respect where respect is due. To reduce the organization to a parchment presenting dead fish club is ludicrous! How about you give the organization that made sport fishing what it is a little credit?
4. {This one is for Squidnation also} Fees for registering a record- You bet there should be fees. Its a private organization and if you want their recognition or information you pay the piper or you establish you own organization. Its not a public charity, but they do a hell of a lot for the good of everyone.
4. One more thing- Do you want a crying towel over the circle hook issue? Get over it. Circle hooks are much more effective than J-hooks for billfish anyway. And yes you can skirt baits with circle hooks and still catch fish.

[Squidnation]

Fritz just to clairify. I don't have a problem with fees for adult submissions. But I do think jr record submissions should be free. And the records should be free to view by all who want to see them

[sanchoco]

Yes, I fish in central America. I also fish in other places where there are not many fish. The reason we need these laws is that we as fishermen (commercial or recreational) can not regulate ourselves enough to keep a resource from disappearing. If you want to keep doing business as you are then you and your friends should have thought about conserving your fish in the past. If you are the age that you say(only a few years older then myself) and a Mate in the charter business why 20 years age did you and others kill every billfish and put them on the dock?? you and myself are part of the reason that these things need to be done now because we didn't care about our futures back then. Yes, I have no problem saying I am part of the problem, That realization from others will help us start moving in the right direction.

If we as fishermen do not do something to change our ways then the government will force all kinds of things down our thought's. Limits, gear regulations and fishing laws would not be necessary if there were fish out there. Who has taken those fish out of the water, they did not just jump on the beach and kill themselves. We did, I know you are going to say the commercial guys did it. Yes, they are part of the problem but not the whole problem. How many tons of fish hit the dock in NC from charter and private boats yearly?

All I was saying about the 20-30 fish days is that if you don't see those kind of numbers how can say one type of hook is better than another. at 65 fish a year your sample is not big enough to tell yo anything.

BTW I agree with you on the IGFA and their self appointed position on conservation. I am no longer a member.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Squidnation

Fritz just to clairify. U don't have a problem fees for adult submissions. But I do think jr record submissions should be free. And the records should be free to view by all who want to see them

If you are a member, you can make a suggestion regarding submission fees, otherwise the parents should cough it up. I do think it would be smart not charge kids from a PR perspective.

If you google a specific species, you should be able to get the record. Otherwise, you can buy the book. The book is good to have on the boat anyway.

[WAHOONBOX]

Originally Posted by Fritz

I have been reading the posts and would like to add my two cents worth to you Marty. I don't know you, but I read your stuff and just like every other author here sometimes it has value and sometimes it doesn't. This time I think you are way off base:
1. Just because you choose to make your living on the water does not entitle you to have more of a say in how things are done or more access to that resource. No matter what we choose to do for a living, we all have to play by the rules and the rules are meant to be for the good of all. If you don't like it, you work to change it for the better or find another line of work.
2. Kill giants to put food on the table? Pallease as you would say. That makes you no better than the Japanese, long liners, foreign fleets etc. This may piss a few guys off, but facts are facts. Every one of these fish that is killed is one less breeder to rebuild. I have not fished for a Bluefin in about 5 years for that reason. I am older enoough to remember shoals of feeding tuna and I hope they may return one day.
3. Are you really running down the IGFA? Your opinion in my opinion sucks. I am not a member, but I give respect where respect is due. To reduce the organization to a parchment presenting dead fish club is ludicrous! How about you give the organization that made sport fishing what it is a little credit?
4. {This one is for Squidnation also} Fees for registering a record- You bet there should be fees. Its a private organization and if you want their recognition or information you pay the piper or you establish you own organization. Its not a public charity, but they do a hell of a lot for the good of everyone.
4. One more thing- Do you want a crying towel over the circle hook issue? Get over it. Circle hooks are much more effective than J-hooks for billfish anyway. And yes you can skirt baits with circle hooks and still catch fish.

HOLEY SAMOLEY .... WHY DO YOU GUYS FEEL YOU NEED TO TAKE MY VIEWS SO PERSONAL? LIKE I AM ATTACKING YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL


AM I NOT ENTILTLED TO MY OPINION HERE....??

HAVE I EVER WENT ON THE DEFENSIVE TO YOU FRITZ OR WHO EVER YOU ARE? I DON'T THINK SO

I MAKE MY LIVING ON THE WATER SO I SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO MY OWN VIEW I WOULD THINK.


CRYING TOWEL YOU SAY? YOU JUST DON'T GET IT AND YOU NEVER WILL....THEY TAKE AND TAKE ....THE CIRCLE THING IS JUST A TIP OF THE ICEBURG

SOME PEOPLE SEE FIT TO TAKE MY VIEW ON A PARTICULAR SUBJECT AND THEN GO ON THE BOX ATTACK AND MAKE IT PERSONAL AS YOU HAVE DUDE I AM LAUGHING HERE IN YA FACE.....


THE CIRCLE HOOK FORUM....I GUESS IT'S AGREE WITH THE GREAT THINKERS HERE OR BE GONE...

HAVE A NICE DAY FRITZ

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by WAHOONBOX

HOLEY SAMOLEY .... WHY DO YOU GUYS FEEL YOU NEED TO TAKE MY VIEWS SO PERSONAL? LIKE I AM ATTACKING YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL


AM I NOT ENTILTLED TO MY OPINION HERE....??

HAVE I EVER WENT ON THE DEFENSIVE TO YOU FRITZ OR WHO EVER YOU ARE? I DON'T THINK SO

I MAKE MY LIVING ON THE WATER SO I SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO MY OWN VIEW I WOULD THINK.


CRYING TOWEL YOU SAY? YOU JUST DON'T GET IT AND YOU NEVER WILL....THEY TAKE AND TAKE ....THE CIRCLE THING IS JUST A TIP OF THE ICEBURG

SOME PEOPLE SEE FIT TO TAKE MY VIEW ON A PARTICULAR SUBJECT AND THEN GO ON THE BOX ATTACK AND MAKE IT PERSONAL AS YOU HAVE DUDE I AM LAUGHING HERE IN YA FACE.....


THE CIRCLE HOOK FORUM....I GUESS IT'S AGREE WITH THE GREAT THINKERS HERE OR BE GONE...

HAVE A NICE DAY FRITZ

Listen POPS, I took nothing personal, but at 48 years of age and having done this for my entire life I probably have been on the water as long or longer than you. You can play the I do this for a living so I am entitled card but your argument is just weak. Circle hooks, bag limits, banning gill netters for the breeding grounds, etc. have all helped to create a healthy fishery and circle hooks are just another piece of the puzzle. Sorry you are so puzzled by them.

Oh and the Dude I laugh in my face thing- I am not the least bit intimidated as some of the younger guys might be.

Its a new time and a new age. You can fight it all you want, but if you don't learn to adapt you will be dead in the water and left deep in the wake. Why don't you learn to innovate and work with these things. Create a new method for rigging with circle hooks. Now there's a positive action. I know this is going to sound hokey, but its better to light a candle then to curse the darkness.

[SeaMent]

This thread was started in March this year, why after 8 months is the shit hittin the fan all the sudden ? could someone clue me in please ?

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by SeaMent

This thread was started in March this year, why after 8 months is the shit hittin the fan all the sudden ? could someone clue me in please ?

Because its winter, its cold, and there are not enough fish days to keep everybody happy including me.

Seriously though, the IGFA is a hell of an organization and after this I think I will finally mail in my membership dues. There are alot of greats and pioneers of this sport associated with them. What's more, they do alot for the sportfishing industry as a whole kind of like the unsung heroes in my opinion. I reiterate, to essentially call them nothing but a parchment passsing dead fish club is rediculous.