How do you get them out??????????? - Page 5

floridadeckie · 03-31-2008, 10:09 PM

I guess no one here reads worldwide angler magazine, but they did this exact test. the results were quite surprising and interesting. enjoy the read
http://www.worldwideanglermag.com/is...n/hookrust.php

Squidnation · 03-31-2008, 10:20 PM

The one thing that neither of they tests take into consideration is the friction caused by the constant moving of the jaw shifting the hooks as we as other food fish touching these hook nor does it take into the consideration varying pressure of dept and light. But nonetheless it is very interesting especially since Pauls test seems to have generated oxdiation at a faster rate then the other test showed. Does this mean that the hooks are inconsistant in the construction or varying water conditions affect the oxidation rate. ?????????????? like most experiments sounds like this will generate more questions then answers. Thanks again Paul. Cool stuff!

Deep C · 03-31-2008, 10:57 PM

Now this test I'm doing is indeed fun but as I go more and more stuff pops up in the way of questions. We've all noted and agreed that a day or two is all we get out of a tip on these hooks. Well Theyve got over 50 hours of soak time right now and all the tips are in tact. A touch fuzzy on one but still fishable. With the exception of the 9174 all the hooks so far could be rigged and fished without a second thought...
With that observation in place and their propensity to lose tips when fished in say 15 hours of soak time that leads me to wonder how much deterioration can be increased by electrolysis from the move ment of water. Billfish being pelagics effectively must maintain roughly a body length per second swimming speed to function properly. Sometimes faster but seldom slower. A body length of six feet moving its own length every second can be calculated out at 6 feet a second times 3600 seconds per hour = 21600 feet per hour or roughly four pont six miles per hour.
Now where can I get running water that moves four point six miles an hour until a hook rusts out... I think I need a government grant! and let her rip on one monster troll!!!

Then I got thinking about the jaw and /or mandible and the role it would play in itself either opening up due to abscess or growing heavy scar tissue and actually insulating the hook.
Bill added a twist about food and its impact. Now I get to twist back another way. Might that hook actually deflect some of the food that was destined for the maw?

I love this mad scientist stuff...

Finnseeker · 03-31-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep C

Its the 2004EL but red... The ones IGFA, Billfish Foundation. and NMFS have been giving out/ All the light wire el down here are either red or black. Only non coated hooks here are the 39948z Mustads...

The 48 hour update...
Things starting to perk some. Really all surprises to me. Mustad 9174 short shank heavy wire J is leading the way and is now what could be called fully rusty. The 3407 that was the first to get a rust spot has changed little. Owner octopus light wire and mustad 39951bln are now showing rust right where the shanks start the bend. The EC 2004El has changed color from red to uniform gray and has bare metal exposed but no rust yet. The VMC also red, has also in the last couple hours turned color but not to the extent of the EC...

Okay then thats why the 2004EL is not rusting out then compared to the tests we have done and in continuous salt water flowing over them. Im not saying that that would accelerate or change the salinity but I have only tested the non coated hooks as these are the ones we use and fish with in the tournaments.
Thanks for you testing and results. Much appreciated

Finnseeker · 03-31-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floridadeckie

I guess no one here reads worldwide angler magazine, but they did this exact test. the results were quite surprising and interesting. enjoy the read
http://www.worldwideanglermag.com/is...n/hookrust.php

Yes read this article and this is NOT the same hook we use and therefore hard to compare. This Eagle Claw (#L2004 ELG 7/0), was coated to prevent rusting that they used in their study.

Place the noncoated hook at the dock for a day and see the difference. After a few cast or trolling live bait or dead ballyhoo put that hook in a plastic bag and see the rusting on this.

I will do a time lapse test with digital pictures for you on the non coated Eagle claw hook show you when I can. We did a lot of research into this because of the high hook up ration and sheer numbers of marlin we have been releasing and of course all the skeptics questioning over 2000 marlin swiming around with circle hooks in them.

Again we have yet to see or know anyone who has captured any striped marlin or sailfish with our hooks in them yet.

Deep C · 04-01-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finnseeker

Okay then thats why the 2004EL is not rusting out then compared to the tests we have done and in continuous salt water flowing over them. Im not saying that that would accelerate or change the salinity but I have only tested the non coated hooks as these are the ones we use and fish with in the tournaments.
Thanks for you testing and results. Much appreciated

Going with whats available in south florida (A huge market) no uncoateds of any kind any place unless mustad... For grins last night I scratched the surface off one with sand paper. At 24 hours she has no signs of rust yet either...
You mention on the dock. I notice my hooks start getting rusty almost over night when out in the air. Could be easily explained that the moisture leaving all but at the molecular level has left a hyper saline layer of almost straight salt to do the etch work That would be near 100% salinity versus a much lower concentration in the water... This test may be a long way from precise but fish live under the water in the less hostile saline enviroment. Fish themselves really look like hell if left out in the air for that matter...

Well we are at 72 hours. 9174 is still rusting away hard leaving a stain at the bottom of the test tank. Funny though, near the tip its like the rust has fallen off and no new to replace... 39951 now has a definate spot of hard core rust at the bend. EC lost its coat really yesterday and is just sitting there gun metal grey. VMC has not done much in the way of change other than off color a bit. 3407 who had the first spot of rust has not changed since the first day. Owner seemed to stale mate out and has not changed since yesterday... This will be the last daily report for a while as I'm going to miami to leave just as many circles in as many fish as I can over the next few days...

Just as well. At the rate these thiings rust I would imagine it will be that long to see anything close to what could be called damage.

Deep C · 04-08-2008, 07:15 PM

Ok Gang... Nine days and not one of them are close to what I would say are ready to fail or fall out... 9174 the coating is all gone but the hook remaining looks strong. 39951bln is running second but being so thin I think will be the first to be declared dead. Ec2004 appears to be corroding nicely but no rust as such??? Owner just a trace. VMC looks like new... Its too dark where they are to get a clean pic so I'll do that in the morn...

Patudo · 04-09-2008, 10:43 AM

Extremely interesting test and one that, I think proves that hooks do not deteriorate as quickly as many have thought.

Perhaps they should be made (or modified by the angler) to be barbless so that a released fish might shake them more easily? See last post in this thread:

C-hooks in artificial lures

Deep C · 04-09-2008, 07:44 PM

Ten days and nothing really cooked yet. Right after this shot I touched the Eagle Claw (the white crusty looking one)... Appears to be some kind of precipitate just on top. Finish really isn't eteched at all...
VMC still looks ne, Owner light wire octopus harly budged, 3407 looks same as day two, 9174 going away nice, 39951bln getting pretty shabby, eagle claw looks bad but as noted above just seems to be stuff gathering on it rather than eroding it...

Deep C · 04-09-2008, 08:39 PM

I've been thinking ... Since it takes so long for these hooks to rust it could well be that an abcess and subsequent hole left in a jaw would probably be a quicker way for the fish to dislodge a hook... That would lean in favor of J because the design of a circle requires a much more radical motion to remove than just gravity...
If I had run with bill or jaw this long from a dead fish it would surely have rotted completely away by now...

03-31-2008, 10:09 PM	#41
floridadeckie Crab mustard is good Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Big Bend, Fl/Islamorada, FL Posts: 650 Boat: hula girl Home Port: islamorada Occupation: fulltime freelance deckie	I guess no one here reads worldwide angler magazine, but they did this exact test. the results were quite surprising and interesting. enjoy the read http://www.worldwideanglermag.com/is...n/hookrust.php __________________ *SALTWATER COWBOY OUTFITTERS* Serving the Florida Big Bend to the Keys with all your guiding, deckhand, and detailing needs PM me for rates and details www.saltwatercowboyoutfitters.com Jimmy D.

03-31-2008, 10:57 PM	#43
Deep C Master of all things wet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Plywood State Posts: 14,605 Boat: Several Home Port: Palm Beach Best Catch: Mrs Deep Occupation: Killin Stuff	Now this test I'm doing is indeed fun but as I go more and more stuff pops up in the way of questions. We've all noted and agreed that a day or two is all we get out of a tip on these hooks. Well Theyve got over 50 hours of soak time right now and all the tips are in tact. A touch fuzzy on one but still fishable. With the exception of the 9174 all the hooks so far could be rigged and fished without a second thought... With that observation in place and their propensity to lose tips when fished in say 15 hours of soak time that leads me to wonder how much deterioration can be increased by electrolysis from the move ment of water. Billfish being pelagics effectively must maintain roughly a body length per second swimming speed to function properly. Sometimes faster but seldom slower. A body length of six feet moving its own length every second can be calculated out at 6 feet a second times 3600 seconds per hour = 21600 feet per hour or roughly four pont six miles per hour. Now where can I get running water that moves four point six miles an hour until a hook rusts out... I think I need a government grant! and let her rip on one monster troll!!! Then I got thinking about the jaw and /or mandible and the role it would play in itself either opening up due to abscess or growing heavy scar tissue and actually insulating the hook. Bill added a twist about food and its impact. Now I get to twist back another way. Might that hook actually deflect some of the food that was destined for the maw? I love this mad scientist stuff... Last edited by Deep C; 03-31-2008 at 10:59 PM.

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04-08-2008, 07:15 PM	#47
Deep C Master of all things wet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Plywood State Posts: 14,605 Boat: Several Home Port: Palm Beach Best Catch: Mrs Deep Occupation: Killin Stuff	Ok Gang... Nine days and not one of them are close to what I would say are ready to fail or fall out... 9174 the coating is all gone but the hook remaining looks strong. 39951bln is running second but being so thin I think will be the first to be declared dead. Ec2004 appears to be corroding nicely but no rust as such??? Owner just a trace. VMC looks like new... Its too dark where they are to get a clean pic so I'll do that in the morn...

04-09-2008, 10:43 AM	#48
Patudo Sit down Shut up And fish Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Extremely interesting test and one that, I think proves that hooks do not deteriorate as quickly as many have thought. Perhaps they should be made (or modified by the angler) to be barbless so that a released fish might shake them more easily? See last post in this thread: C-hooks in artificial lures

04-09-2008, 07:44 PM	#49
Deep C Master of all things wet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Plywood State Posts: 14,605 Boat: Several Home Port: Palm Beach Best Catch: Mrs Deep Occupation: Killin Stuff	Ten days and nothing really cooked yet. Right after this shot I touched the Eagle Claw (the white crusty looking one)... Appears to be some kind of precipitate just on top. Finish really isn't eteched at all... VMC still looks ne, Owner light wire octopus harly budged, 3407 looks same as day two, 9174 going away nice, 39951bln getting pretty shabby, eagle claw looks bad but as noted above just seems to be stuff gathering on it rather than eroding it...

04-09-2008, 08:39 PM	#50
Deep C Master of all things wet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Plywood State Posts: 14,605 Boat: Several Home Port: Palm Beach Best Catch: Mrs Deep Occupation: Killin Stuff	I've been thinking ... Since it takes so long for these hooks to rust it could well be that an abcess and subsequent hole left in a jaw would probably be a quicker way for the fish to dislodge a hook... That would lean in favor of J because the design of a circle requires a much more radical motion to remove than just gravity... If I had run with bill or jaw this long from a dead fish it would surely have rotted completely away by now...