How do you get them out???????????

[Finnseeker]

Have been able to get a few back out by billing the fish and doing it in the water. Some just wont come out and they get cut very close to the mouth. Bringing them out is not good for them. We do try to remove them because the circle where it sets though not immediately life threatening has the potential for far worse damage than even a gut hooking. The circle sets in the mandibluar joint in most cases. There it is getting no acid addition to facilitate rusting. The position in that joint has the portential for causing that joint to inflame quickly and then the fish can't eat.
Studies done on recaptured bluefin tuna that had long line circles in them showed the fish to be emaciated and virtually without value in the market.
Each year I catch a couple to a few fish with J hooks in them and not showing any particular stress. Supposedly nearly half the billfish here in south Florida are being caught on circles. I know nobody personally who has recaptured one with a circle in it. I did catch my first silk shark with one in it this year though and he was niot showing any wear as such.
We for the first time in years tagged some fish this year. It will be interesting to see percentage wise how many circle caught fish do get recaptured versus those tagged using J hooks. That would be a number I would love to see.

DeepC - interesting data thanks,

Of the thousands of fish we released last year both in and out of the tournaments and including some of the Charters in Cabo nobody I know yet to date has ever recaptured any sailfish or marlin in it with the eagle claw thin wired 8'0 hooks in them either the next day, next week or month. They key here maybe the thin wired as they rust out very quickly in days.

They have captured fish with J hooks obviously none we or the tournament released since we only permitt eagle claw thin wired circle hooks.

We have tagged fish and recovered fish that were tagged again without the circle hooks in them. We have only recovered one fish that was tagged the day before and at liberty, some 18hrs and it did not have the circle hook in it.

[Deep C]

DeepC - interesting data thanks,

Of the thousands of fish we released last year both in and out of the tournaments and including some of the Charters in Cabo nobody I know yet to date has ever recaptured any sailfish or marlin in it with the eagle claw thin wired 8'0 hooks in them either the next day, next week or month. They key here maybe the thin wired as they rust out very quickly in days.

They have captured fish with J hooks obviously none we or the tournament released since we only permitt eagle claw thin wired circle hooks.

We have tagged fish and recovered fish that were tagged again without the circle hooks in them. We have only recovered one fish that was tagged the day before and at liberty, some 18hrs and it did not have the circle hook in it.

Interesting and duly noted... I take note though that of the fish I recover with J hooks in them they are also thin wire models. Some in mouth and some deeper as the circle is much tougher to just fall out and similar brand wire should rust at same rate I'm curious what would account for one still being there while the other not... The one I did recover from that little silk shark showed age on the leader and some but not a lot of rust.

[rarhomes]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I can't believe a hook will rust away in a few days.
Maybe not even a fews weeks. Has anybody done any testing to really see how long it takes for a hook to rust out and break?

[Deep C]

In regards to sharks that was a silk down here that evidently ate a sail bait. I have caught many many blue sharks in the north with long line gear both circle and J protruding from their mouths and they seemed to have no health issues. Could be that their cartilage based structure or over all physiology is is tougher than that of other fishes.
The billfish seems to be up and down as far as toughness goes... I heard divers report an inordinate amount of them on the bottom out here after a particularly brisk sailfish tournment a few years back. Something like 600 or 700 fish that year and most caught in tight quarters to home. Many on kites which personally I feel in conjunction with J hooks is problems waiting to happen. Then I have let fish go that I thought had no prayer that were recaptured both near and far.
I recall a small blue we caught at Chub a few years back. The fish was a bear to bow up on. Maybe six or seven shots at it before connecting. We got the fish to the boat and I was amazed to see the bill busted off almost all the way back to the eye socket. Its face was a mess but that fish was as healthy and spunky as any whole one would be. So who knows... I sure don't...
Rar
For grins I think it a great idea and I'll try to do a test. Sea water and a clear lure and a bunch of hooks should work nicely, both J and circle all in one container. I'll space them far enough apart though so eletrolysis doesn't skew the results...

[Finnseeker]

Interesting and duly noted... I take note though that of the fish I recover with J hooks in them they are also thin wire models. Some in mouth and some deeper as the circle is much tougher to just fall out and similar brand wire should rust at same rate I'm curious what would account for one still being there while the other not... The one I did recover from that little silk shark showed age on the leader and some but not a lot of rust.

Ive spoken to several manufacturers and they are now coating several hooks and treating them as they feel to many are complaining/complained that the hooks rust in their tackle boxes and or on their boats after on application in salt water and could not use again.

All good and well considering our purpose is to ensure a healthy release and minimize the hook in the fish where possible so our hooks for the tournaments will not be coated so they rust out quicker.

The foreging process is different in many manufactures and the meatalic composition is different in many manufactures some cost prohibitive some like the VMC more expensive different metals and materials.

Without having that thin wired J- hook analyized vs the circle hooks we using in the touraments is hard for me to comment and or discuss and I dont wish to speculate either as there could be a few factors here that play a certain role.

What I can tell you is thet the Eagle claw hooks barbs and points rust out within a day and this may be what and why the hooks dislodge in a fish quicker. The J hook you mentioned similarly I have not tested or seen as we just have not used j hooks for so long now that it would not be fair for me to comment. I will get some j-hooks and run the test and see if we can come up with something.

I cannot say I have recoverd any billfish with a J-hook in its stomach or gills for that matter so hard to tell, the ones I have seen in the bill, on top of the head, outside gill plate or eye were pretty rusted but still there and were mostly stainless steel hooks. I would presume that if the j-hook composition without the new coating on would disolve as the current non coated eagle claw circles.

Talking with Guy Harvey who does all the underwater filming and scientific study on circles he informed me that he has not seen any circle hooks in billfish trailing old line as with j- hooks which indicated time in the water on the fish.

Was your recaptured shark healthy in your opinion even with that trailing line ?

[Finnseeker]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I can't believe a hook will rust away in a few days.
Maybe not even a fews weeks. Has anybody done any testing to really see how long it takes for a hook to rust out and break?

Non coated thin wired hooks in less than 3 days, the barbs and points in 8-12 hrs break away /off. The rest of the hook was gone in less than 3 days and testing was done with hooks inserted in a broadbill bill in salt water. Personally I feel salinity levels have a lot to do with accelerated rusting as it does differ slightly.

[Squidnation]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I can't believe a hook will rust away in a few days.
Maybe not even a fews weeks. Has anybody done any testing to really see how long it takes for a hook to rust out and break?

A thin wire hook is basically useless after one day. Try it, leave it out overnight and by the end of the next day it will start to rust. They really are not intended for more then a day or two of use. But they are also very inexpensive.

[Deep C]

7:PM Test started ... VMC, Mustad BLN, EC 2004, Owner 5179 for circle... Mustad 3407, mustad 9174, owner light wire for "J". Atlantic Florida water as test medium...

[Reveille75]

I can't wait to get the results of your test. Are you hanging these hooks on a dock under water? I fish in the Gulf of Mexico just north of the Rio Grande so I'm pretty sure we are at least as saline as you are.
What is a thin wire hook? Is it strong enough not to bend with a two hundred pound leader? I don't mind replacing hooks daily but I sure would hate to loose a fish because my tackle was too light.
David

[SeaMent]

I pull my rigs one trip and there history, as Bill said the hooks are the least expensive part of the trip. Rev75 are you catchin little Blue's with the 200lb leaders ? for Whites and Sails we are running 50lb flouro for leaders and don't have any problems at all catchin em, as far as rusting, I use Eagle Circles and after pulling them one day they are showing signs of rusting and they look like they have been left laying on the dock box for a few days. Deep I'm going to do a little test myself here in O.C. and see how these hooks hold up both Circle and J's. I'm curious to see the results as well.