C-hooks in artificial lures

[Admin]

Originally Posted by Sea Draggin

My Peace offering...and the only post I will make outside my threadsite, but here so you will see it.

You do not need special software.

1. Open/register for a photobucket account at www.photobucket.com

2. Upload your pics to your account. Hit the browse button, find the pics on your computer. Hit the 'add more' button. You should be able to upload 15 or 20 at a time.

3. Once you have all your pics uploaded it will ask you if you want to name them. You can if you like or click to go to your album.

4. Click under the pic in the 'IMG code' box. It will automatically copy and say copied.

5. Go back to your word document and past where you want the image to be. You will get something that looks like this [img]www.photobucket.jlasjfl[/img]

6. Just copy and past that into your post and bammo the pic will appear via automatic link.

7. You should be able to copy and past and splatter the web at will.

Give it a shot.
Jim

What he is speaking about is the software that we are using to make bills articles lay out the way they are. So you can formatt the post to look like a true article should.

Jer is working to make this work for all of us and it is not a very simple approach but we feel we can make it work for people who want to learn how to layout posts alot nicer.
You can also do the samething in our photo section witch works with your account you are posting with right now.
Capt John

[Captain Fred Archer]

Thank you anyway, Draggin'

Bisquit and others,

There is a good article by George Poveromo on circles in hard lures in this month's Saltwater Sportsman. I don't have a lot of experience with the hard lures because I backed off of them a long time ago. I have used circles in Marauder/Yo-Zuri/Boone style swimming plugs in the past and had good success with them. I'll dig around for a picture that was in one of my early books tomorrow (sorry, but it's late and I'm tired). The way that I rigged them was by twisting the belly wire loop so the hook would run "up and down" off of a stronger, replacement split ring. I only ran the one hook on them, a big longliner model. I don't use the hard plugs anymore.

I have a lot more success with regular lures and bar chasebaits with circles in them, part of the reason being that I had fish spook off hard plugs that they missed, both with J's or C's and I think it was because they are hard, and fish don't eat turtles and rocks. If a fish misses the hook on the first shot at a trolling lure (I use hard/soft ones) or a chasebait squid on a spreaderbar there are three good things that happen. First, the bait feels real, not rock-hard. Second, the fish doesn't get pricked or stuck by the hook...a circle doesn't do that. It usually gets the fish on the first shot, but if not the lure doesn't act like "a bait that bites back", like a J-hook or double J-hooks can and do. Third, because the lure felt real and didn't bite back, re-bites are basically instant and HARD! Apex predators aren't used to baits that they have nailed getting away from them, and they don't wander off and sulk or seek therapy because it depresses them, they come back and blast the "escapee" even harder than the first time and that kind of re-bite is hard on the poor things!

[Captain Fred Archer]

Good numbers of lookee loo's on this one, but not too many posters. Well, that's okay. This is all new to most fishermen and it's good if some are thinking about the stuff I've posted so far.

Now, I can't quote too much from the Journal article (May/June), but here is a mighty important point to mull over if you are thinking of trying C's in lures...

CONFUSING “THE BAIT WAIT” TO A LURE STRIKE ON A C-HOOK

I believe that the single biggest reason why, and maybe even especially why those who use C-hooks in baits have a hard time believing that they would work in lures is a direct result of the mantra that bait fishermen go by – “You need to let a marlin or any other fish eat that bait, maybe even swallow it and then turn and swim at an angle or away in order for the circle to go to the corner of its mouth or jaw and catch it.” I don’t happen to buy into that with the bridled baits that I fish with, but that’s another story for another article. Short and sweet, the point here is to not get all hung up over the fish "needing to eat the lure", "or getting it well into its mouth" and the "turning away so that the C hook slides into the corner of their mouths" speculations by those who haven't fished C's in lures extensively.

“SLOW AS MOLASSES VERSUS AS FAST LIQUID LIGHTNING”

In a nutshell, that is the difference between a bait bite and one on a trolled lure and it is critical to understand the difference if you are going to develop the confidence to rig and use C-hooks on lures. First and foremost, one has to recognize that the physical dynamics of a trolled marlin or other fish coming in at their usual wharp speed, which is invariably faster than the lure, and attacking one that is traveling at seven to twelve knots. Those dynamics are radically different than those involved in that same fish coming in and scooping up a dead or live bait, no matter what kind of hook it's on. Compared to a troll lure bite, a bite on live or dead bait is done in virtual slow motion, while in contrast, everything that happens in the trolling scenario happens far, far faster. Everything from the speed of the bite, to the crushing of the lure, even to swallowing it happens in a flash during a troll bite on a lure compared to a bait bite. One of those differences is that the hook is set by the angler on the bait bite, while it is usually set by the boat on a troll bite. These differences in bite dynamics are important to recognize and remember when we consider the how's and why's of billfish, or any other kinds of fish strikes on C-hook bearing lures. The differences are, in fact, vast, not minute and in the case of the "grab, crush and gulp" feeding marlin versus that same fish slurping down a bait are both considerable, and key to hooking them.

FORGET THE DEAD OR LIVE BAIT “C-HOOK RULES”

The second thing to learn and remember is to forget the techniques and even the type of C hook used for a bait-eating marlin or other fish, versus one the right kind for a fish that has run down and has seized a trolled lure. It would be extremely foolish to use the popular Eagle Claw circles that were developed for bait fishing on lures. First, because of their "built in" rapid decomposition in salt water. That's fine in a bait hook, but not in a lure one for what should be a glaringly obvious reason - the constant re-rigging of such lures that would be required in the first place and the missing of fish that hit ones unchanged yet, but too degraded to function properly. So no bait hooks in your trolling lures, please.

MATCHING C-HOOKS TO THE JOB

That's it for now. Hope it makes sense.

[Squidnation]

thanks Fred - great stuff.

Jer can we get a sticky for this. This the article type stuff that needs to stay at the top for a while.

Bill

[Bert Rodgers]

The other big question is hook up technique. Rod in holder? Drag? Drop back?

And you mentioned trolled v dead bait, what about (Box forgive me) whitey and sailfish at 4.5 knts that come in a snoopin and a peckin?

Bert

[Sterling]

Great stuff, there's a lot of us trying to make the switch to C's, and that should be good for everyone. My spread usually has a mix of nakeds and skirted bally's, and often spreader bars. So right now, I'm stuck in the middle with circles on the nakeds, J's everywhere else. Building the confidence with C's and working them into the plastics would be great.

Half the boats in this area are pulling a Green Machine somewhere in their spread, if we can find a good way to rig that with a Circle, with effectiveness on Tuna, Dorado and Bills, it could be a big step in converting the masses. Because of the length of the skirt, it seems that it could be a gould candidate. Has anyone given this a solid run?

[Captain Fred Archer]

I'm ducking as I write this because I realize that I am about to tread upon hallowed ground, but what the heck, that would be a long time from the first time for me! I don't troll Green Machines. As I have stated here before, I much prefer a six, nine, twelve, or ever fifteen inch "green machine green" hollow squid. And I don't troll it with a bird in front of it. I feel that a small pod of little squids in front of it just makes it a much more effective lure and it has a superior speed range of 4-14 or more knots. Plus, I can weight it in various ways to fit various sea conditions. And since they have similar shapes, both the GM and my "insteada's" each has that subtle, smooth slide through the water troll look to it. The only thing missing is the little red beads inside the skirt and you know what? I don't miss them at all and I don't think that the fish do, either. Finally, I get a wide choice of colors using the "insteada's" and I really like that side too, and I think that it can make a big difference at times.

Be all that as it may, the question is how to rig real GM's with circle hooks and because of the above, I don't know. But there is a final reason that I like the insteada's and it has very much to do with hook placement, be it a J or a circle. As you will see below, I place my hooks in the head/eye area of the squids. I do this because I believe that area to be the primarly target of (especially) billfish that attack squid. This is because they are "Grab, Crush, and Gobble Feeders" and grabbing the hind end of a squid will just give it a proverbial "hot foot" and is far more likely to cause that squid to squirt and split, instead of turning into a meal. Ditto on the front of a big squid. A bloody nose and high speed departure would be the usual result of that sort of bite attempt. But a "Grab and Crush" of the central nerve bundle in the eye area proves to be the best of all knockout punches here, so that's where I put my hooks. The whole strike sequence happens so fast when a marlin takes a trolled lure or nails a MarlinBar chasebait that for me, at least, it is virtually impossible to actually see what happens, even from up in a tuna tower. What tells the tale and did many times to me are the bite marks on the chasebaits and the lures. They clearly show that the area I'm talking about is the one that marlin almost always target.

Here too, the insteada's have a big edge over artificials because the C-hook is still free to swing and "lay down" when a billfish bites down on it, which I have already noted is one of the keys to a circle hook hookup on lures or spreaderbar chasebaits. Trying to mount a C or J hook in that location and allowing it to swing in the middle of plastic lure skirts, or worse yet, that stringy nylon stuff that I hate using is a wide open invitation to skirts wrapping up in hooks and messing everything up. That just doesn't happen when a C hook is rigged the way that we rig them, with the shank in the hollow body and only the business end of the hook peeking out. All of the above are the reasons why I run little, super lightweight, six or eight inch wide bars in front of hollow squids instead of the Green Machines.

Before we go any further I want to re-state how important it is to remember the great difference between a J and a C hook. The J is designed to cut through and penetrate marlin flesh, inside or sometimes outside the mouth (especially those double hook snag rigs) and in eyes at times and unfortunately, in gills or guts at other times.

As I say in my books, Circle hooks are like a monkey fxxcking a football, in that they are designed to wrap themselves around something and hang on like hell. Heck, like the monkey, a circle "does the nasty" too, only in this case that means helping us beat up a fish. (It's a good thing that monkey/football thing doesn't result in offspring, or we might wind up with fuzzy little, Mutant MonkeyBall Mongrels that bounce funny when kids try to play with them and that keep jumping on their legs and doing the nasty! ("Mommy, mommy! Something's wrong with my MonkeyBall, Thumper! He keeps grabbing my leg and wiggling around making grunting noises, like a piggy!")

Seriously, though, the differences between how J-hooks and C's hold onto fish for us are huge, which brings me back to the hook rigging difference. As far as marlin are concerned, I put the hook where I said I do and the way that you see them below. Of course, being a charter captain whose clients are interested in both billfish AND meat, I have to use lures that appeal to all of them. So, while I designed our MarlinBars for doing a number on billfish, they also catch the poo out of the meat fish too. The hook location that I use is also ideal for the "Slasher" types, like dolphin and wahoo (the 'hoo target the eye area at regular to pretty fast trolling speeds, but take out the tail when they are after true high speed stuff and in those cases, you better have a fanny hook to nail them with).

The tunas are "Engulf and Gobble" feeders that generally come in from below and behind and just, well, engulf and then swallow a lure fast. Here, a tailgunner style hook rigging will work, but the bad side of that one is that if it's a J-hook, many times it's going to hook the fish deep, which is okay if you are killing every one that you catch, but not good if you fish under limit constraints and release a lot of fish like we often do, fish that you want to survive. Here, the head-placed C-hook is the better arrangement - again, because it will hook them all, including the tunas, but it will almost always do "the monkey/football thing", instead of the stab and slash. So, I go with the hook in the head area.

As for what hooks the fish, fishermen or the boat, all that I can say is that on my boat, it does the hooking, not the crew or passengers. I learned long ago that the best way to hook virtually every marlin that comes to a MarlinBar is to do nothing, unless you are bait and switching with it. Leave that fish alone on an armed bar and he'll grab that chasebait, usually immediately, because bluffing or spooking a clear target out of the "school" that the teaser pods on a MarlinBar represent is exactly what that fish is hoping for and as soon as he sees it, he's got it and you've got HIM!

When it comes to smaller striped and white marlin and sails with their smaller mouths and especially on the bigger lures or squids, a tailgunner J or C can easily wind up outside of the fish's mouth when he grabs and crushes the bait. That raises the chances of not hooking him when the boat pulls the lure out of the fish's mouth, or he does that himself by swimming away or to the side. Here too, the head hook gets every one of those fish, or darned near every one and none are snagged like on a single, tailgunner J, or worse yet, a double hook snag rig.

As far as ballyhoo are concerned, I run all of mine under "HooHats". I swim them and the hats help keep them from blowing out and washing out and getting damaged at my usual trolling speeds of 8-10 or 12 knots. Yes, they run well at those speeds. I do miss more fish on them and go for and get more re-bites on them than I do the MarlinBars, so I haven't done a helluva lot of experimenting on the ballyhoo side, like I have lures and bars. The bottom line there is that, believe it or not and go ahead and knock them if you want to, even though you haven't used these very different bars, I catch the vast majority of my billfish and everything else for that matter on the bars. Long story short there, I am watching with interest as you guys who rely on ballyhoo a helluva lot more than I do play with and come up with different C-hook options for them.

That's about it for now, I think. Keep a sharp eye out for those fuzzy, mutant MonkeyBalls and if you come across one, don't take him home and let the kids play with him. Depending on his testicular status and general attitude about life, you might let old Rover play with it...hell, he might LIKE it!

[Bert Rodgers]

Thanks Fred , that paints the picture a little better.

Bert

[Bert Rodgers]

But the monkyball thing is creepin me out a little. You may need to see some one about that.

Bert

[Captain Fred Archer]

Well, Bert, looks like it's mostly you and me on this one. Here's some more stuff from, well, you know...