Bait and Switch - Is it all that its cracked up to be

[Squidnation]

Well - its not the"bait and switch" you guys would think i am talking about. Its the charter business "bait n switch" To be civil and respect the industry I will keep the names out of it but will gladly tell anyone in a pm if requested.

I first got bait n switched in Venezuela and didn't like it one bit. I had a successful trip to venezuela in 1987 with two mates. I requested that I get the same mates for my next trips. The agent said no problem at all. So I sent my deposit and waited for my trip. When I got down there I got two other mates who were not nearly as amicable or experienced. I was pretty pissed and let the agent know about it. Without hesitation he told me the other mates were busy fishing with other clients.
1. why didn't he tell me that before the trip
2. bullchit - they were sitting at the dock pissed they couldn't fish. The rotation was there turn and thats why we got the other two mates.

Fishing in Coconut Beach, florida I chartered the best of the best. I couldn't wait to learn from the best. I spoke to the captain and said I only want to fish with you. He said no problem. On the way to the boat I get a phone call saying he can't make it and I will be fishing with his second captain. What a crock. Turned out he had not intention of fishing with us. While he is still the best from his tournament success record, I refuse to charter him again. and refuse to recommend him.

Back to venezuela - We fished out with capt Butch on the prime time. A great three days in horrible conditions. 91 degree flat calm water. We had a scheduled siteseeing day since I had new comers and they decided they would rather fish but butch was booked. We found a very experienced top notch captain and boat for a 4th day. When we got to the boat the captain was not who we expected. It was his mate. I was livid but the guys still wanted to go. Turns out the capt had never intended on fishing with us since he didn't know us and figured it was a good day to take a day off and still make money.

In guatemala we typically only fish with a certain captain. And we always ask for him and always get him. Get down there one day with a group and he's not running the boat. WTF? So I meet the new captain and imediatly have a bad feeling. On the way out we get an oil alarm. We stop to check the oil. Captain doesn't turn off the motor to check the oil. oopsy. Then he proceeds to run over a triple three times. We asked if we could run the boat and he said no problem. I am just the mechanic anyway. Nice! Mechanic who doesn't turn off the boat to check the oil. Now this part is hard to believe but true. The next day I am driving down the street and see a food cart (like a NYC hotdog cart) and who is working the cart? yep our capt/mechanic.

In galapagos we were sold on a brand new charter boat. When we got there we were told we were back on the old crappy boat because the port did not issue the permit as scheduled. We looked around and found another decent looking boat and asked about that. we were told we could use that boat but it didnt raise fish and also had a wierd set up that made it so hot it was unbearable to fish on. I really should have known better but we listened to the captain. on the way out we had fuel issues onthe old boat. probably lost 30 minutes of fishing each day do to the hand pumping of the outboards but never we were offered the other boat that was comparative to the original boat we chartered. When we fished out our days I was not very happy. Not only did we have a poor boat but also had our captain hand over the wheel to the mate so he could learn how to work on a fish from the wheel. He was aweful. We don't pay charter rates to have other people learn on our dollar but thats for another thread. After we fished out our days one of our crew decided he wanted to fish the last day but My son and I wanted to see the island. SO he chartered the other boat that we were disuaded to book. When he got back he told me we got screwed. The other boat was far better then the POS that we fished on and the crew was outstanding. When I told the guy we fished with that we weren't happy he said its good to hear the other crews are getting to his level and maybe he will recommend them more.

So how would you guys handle these Bait n Switch episodes and have you had these issues yourself. Be interested in how to handle it.

[gtrfred]

i agree - i would be upset too.

out of couriosity - where is coconut beach, FL? did you mean coconut grove, fl? and maybe the guy has two boats there with similar names?

[Kahi]

To begin with, I wish I got to travel and fish as much as you to such exciting place. It's interesting b/c on the one hand I try and stay in Florida to fish as much as possible b/c we have an amazing fishery that is hurting for biz, and some top notch guys running boats. One the other hand, I hate getting to foreign locals, wether it be a fishing destination or a vacation (non-fishing).

The foreign places have diff level of service and often will tell you anything to land the contract or charter. People are hurting for biz all over the world. Most of the time, lying or no upholding their end of the deal will feed their families for a few days, but will not result in the long term relationship that can be achieved from a year after year charter....as well, there is huge turn over with Capt. and mates and sometime the owner or agent just wants to get the boat booked out. They don't realize that the boat is only a small part of the experience, the mate and Capt is a huge part and you come to expect the same experience you asked and paid for. It is really hard to make a stink or refuse payment in foreign countries, which basically adds to the problem b/c one might feel pressured or afraid to stand up and refuse full payment.

I find that speaking directly with the Capt. is a great start, I get verbal assurances that everything I have a right to expect will be handled. I pay the deposit and if everything is not right fromt he start, I don't get on the boat...I start walking the dock and let them know that the remaining days of my charters will be on another boat...there is always another boat...I also always tell the owner that I expect a certain amt. of fishing hours per day....unless crazy unforeseen mechanical problems come up...I need lets say 8 hours per charter...45 minutes to pump fuel comes out of your end...make it up at the ned of the day...2 days in a row of errors...I walk the dock...I cant risk my safety and time....but, with being a strict dick, I also tip more than most people...I start at 25% plus a cut of the fish for the mates....its up to them to keep the 25%, lazy crew and I start dropping it down to 20% etc...

As far as the local capt. in Coconut Grove that owns 2 boats....he's the top of the top...I have fished with him..he runs 2 boats and has the right to schedule another Capt to run his other boat while he's running the first boat...His Capt is trained by him to be like he is...I doubt he meant Coconut Grove but actually Coconut Beach also known as Coco Beach..

[pele]

So glad someone brought this up.I believe this problem stems from a couple of things;that fishing is just luck when things go wrong so who one fishes with doesn't matter(tell them that when it's a good day therefore you don't see any reason to tip and see their reaction) and that most assume that the crew knows more than we,the paying customer for good or bad and our expectations and their promises made are at their discretion.It's why I prefer forums to the fishing rags/propaganda-pay,sit down,shut up,smile,tip.Of course I've read many posts from inexperienced one-time anglers complaining of unreasonable things,or industry standards but many complaints are legitimate.The other poster stated the foreign factor which does ring true,and the panic to get the money now, mostly from the desperation that some live in.Consequently things probably won't change anytime soon.
I play it now the same as the other poster;a set price for a tip from what I expect and any shenanigans start being deducted from there all the way to zero.Doubt many crews would look inward to see the problem,but will chalk it up to cheapness.Oh well,I know what I tip.
Finally,if somethings wrong have the courage to say no,even if it means losing a deposit-I've learned it's better to cut my losses...And post your experience,they'll lose in the end.

[Squidnation]

i agree - i would be upset too.

out of couriosity - where is coconut beach, FL? did you mean coconut grove, fl? and maybe the guy has two boats there with similar names?

yes and yes

I will say on a positive note on that trip. We got blown out about 1/3 of the way into the trip. When we got back to the dock I tried to tip the mate a full day's tip and he refused it. He said no way. We didn't work a full day. He gave me two thirds of the tip back.

Kahi - I asked the question to the captain 4 times that he was to be our captain and no one else. It was completely understood. I guess the point was moot since we didn't get to fish a full day. But I do more then the average homework on who i charter. I thought it was 100% clear that I wanted to learn from him. Not fish with the guy that learned from him. Anyway, live and learn and charter someone else.

[Patudo]

I have had something similar happen to me. Fortunately the skipper that I ended up fishing with (instead of the skipper I had requested whom I'd fished with before and knew was a good fisherman) turned out to be a decent fisherman in his own right, and I was happy with the way he fished. I actually still fish with them but... if things had turned out different I'd have been fuming.

I think the best practice is probably to get it written down (a) exactly who you are going to be fishing with and (b) what will happen if the skipper or crew (or boat) you insist on is not available. If anything happens you then have something in writing to hold your operator to account. Bear in mind though that in some locations crew turn over may be pretty high so you may not be able to get a statement in writing, in which case you need to decide for yourself how vital it is.

I have to say though that in situations like this prevention is better than cure. In the internet age it's more easy than ever before to check up on the operation you're intending to fish with. If your operation can't provide references, or you're not happy with the info you're getting, think carefully about booking them.

I must admit I haven't always followed my own advice, but if I was going somewhere new I'd definitely do my due diligence. It only makes sense given the time and money (really serious money in the case of fishing Galapagos) that's being spent.