Hatteras Offshore Fun Fishin' Trips

[HeadHunt]

I've been a sheeple for long enough so here is my 2 cents.

I have some close personal friends that are born and raised Hatteras Captains. Times are very tough there and the guys are fighting every day to pay their bills and feed their family.

I fish those waters as a rec guy and give the captains the utmost respect and don't advertise free or cheap trips over any websites. To me... that is just dis-respectful. I also charter the boys in the fleet from time to time. When I am out on the water, I give them their space and they appreciate it.

I'm sure Capt. Alex is a great guy. I'll bet money he isn't docked with the fleet. Alot of guys pull in to Oden's Dock, Village Marina or Hatteras Landing on a temp basis and throw some competition to the island. That's OK but subsidized competition is another thing... even if it is subsidized by a personal bankroll. You aren't going to get any respect with the guys who fish those waters their whole life with these marketing techniques.

For all the boys looking for a cheap weekend at Hatteras, I would spend a few extra bucks and go with a guy who knows the waters, fishes there 200 days a year, places in the tournaments and lives there. PM me and I'll set you up with some guys that will give you a Hatteras trip year round... year after year.

Sorry to be so tough Alex but this whole thing does not sit well with me.

Alan

[alexcraig]

He looked like a beautiful dog - I'm sorry about your loss.

Thank you, Sir.

Indeed, he was handsome. And with a pedigree that some would spend some time bragging on. However, most importantly, he had a wonderful personality that just clicked with us.

My wife breeds, shows and does obedience work with Manchester Terriers, www.tempest-terriers.com. All, but one of our other dogs were born in our household and raised by us from pups (we're house sitting one from another breeder for a bit).

We took Silas in as a rescue two years ago when he was one year old. Actually, that's a "dog people" phrase and I don't mean to suggest his former owners were bad owners. They had five young kids and simply realized he was too much dog for them to handle on top of the kids.

At first we were concerned about how he'd get along with her passle of Toy Manchesters. I.E., as you can see from her web site, they look exactly like Dobes except they don't get over 12 pounds.

Every once in a while one of them would annoy Silas to the point where he'd grab one of them firmly enough by the neck to plop him or her on their backs, but he never even came close to doing them any harm even though with those massive jaws he could have dispatched any one of them in the wink of an eye. His gentleness with them was quite amazing really given that he wasn't born in our house and raised by my wife. Trust me, when she trains a dog, she'd get applaus from 'The Dog Whisperer'.

Ah, well. I've spent enough time off topic.

Thanks again for the sympathetic words.

[alexcraig]

I've been a sheeple for long enough so here is my 2 cents.

I have some close personal friends that are born and raised Hatteras Captains. Times are very tough there and the guys are fighting every day to pay their bills and feed their family.

I fish those waters as a rec guy and give the captains the utmost respect and don't advertise free or cheap trips over any websites. To me... that is just dis-respectful. I also charter the boys in the fleet from time to time. When I am out on the water, I give them their space and they appreciate it.

I'm sure Capt. Alex is a great guy. I'll bet money he isn't docked with the fleet. Alot of guys pull in to Oden's Dock, Village Marina or Hatteras Landing on a temp basis and throw some competition to the island. That's OK but subsidized competition is another thing... even if it is subsidized by a personal bankroll. You aren't going to get any respect with the guys who fish those waters their whole life with these marketing techniques.

For all the boys looking for a cheap weekend at Hatteras, I would spend a few extra bucks and go with a guy who knows the waters, fishes there 200 days a year, places in the tournaments and lives there. PM me and I'll set you up with some guys that will give you a Hatteras trip year round... year after year.

Sorry to be so tough Alex but this whole thing does not sit well with me.

Alan

Evening Alan,

No problem. You're entitled to your opinion Alan. And I'll certainly give you credit for being civil about it.

First of all, you would lose your bet.

Secondly, I'm not competing with the fleet. This thread has gone on long enough whereby I don't recall everything I've stated previously, so plese bear with what may be a bit of repetition.

You have no idea have many calls & emails I have received from guys who indicated they would love to take me up on my offer but they simply cannot even afford to pick up the cost of bait, fuel & ice. That is why charter bookings are down 50+%!

People are hurtin' bad just about all over; not just in Hatteras.

Unfortunately, a full charter is a lot more than a few bucks more. And I'm not saying they are too expensive. If anything, given the operating costs, their rates ought to be higher!

Bottom line, the guys who are fishing with me have made it clear that if I weren't willing to take them out at cost, they just couldn't swing it.

Now, are these guys supposed to be forced to sit home, otherwise because I whimp out and fold?

In tough times like these, gee willikers, let these guys get out on blue water for a day and forget about their troubles.

One other thing .... and I wasn't going to mention this until I saw your post. I'm hiring a full-time local Capt. to run the boat on our next trip which weather permitting will be Tuesday.

Why? A) Because I like the man and I expect his family could use a few more bucks in these times. B) I'm willing to stretch my budget a bit to put my money where my mouth is. I wish I could afford to do it every trip. I plan on putting my nose to the grindstone this winter while the boat's up on the hill. If I can put a few sales together in my business (the employment busines), I'll do it.

Truth is, I get a kick out of watching other guys catch fish who don't have the opportunity to get out all that often.

[alexcraig]

Morning folks,

OK. I've continued to ponder this issue and I had an idea pop into my head this morning that may put this to rest for most (I doubt all) of those members who have been following this thread. For those of you who like fancy words substitute 'epiphany' for 'idea pop into my head'.

I have edited the following disclaimer into the first post in this thread. I am also going to include it in the other forums in which I've posted except for one which has been locked. I'll email the forum Administrator and request it be added there as well.

I wish I or someone else had thought of it earlier, it might have saved a lot of back and forth.

Important Note: This post is intended for fishermen/women whose discretionary funds are being pinched severly by the current economy.

If you can afford to charter one of the full time professional charter boats in Hatteras, by all means do so. God knows their business is hurting as badly as most and they need the revenue more than I need to go fishing.

If you genuinely cannot afford a professional charter at this point, feel free to give me a shout if you are interested.

[wwalker]

I just thought that I'd throw in my 2 cents on this. I've known Alex for awhile now and he forwarded me a link to this message thread.

I'll leave to those actually affected to argue the merits of spreading the word that you are available for pick-up trips. I just want to tell you that Alex is a stand-up guy and knows how to catch fish. The trips that I've gone on with him out of Hatteras are some of the best trips that I've ever had. We fished out of his 26' Sea Ray and had a great time. Alex put us on fish every day and did not hesitate to share his methods and skills.

My advice - if you get the opportunity to fish with him. take it.

Bill Walker

[alexcraig]

I just thought that I'd throw in my 2 cents on this. I've known Alex for awhile now and he forwarded me a link to this message thread.

I'll leave to those actually affected to argue the merits of spreading the word that you are available for pick-up trips. I just want to tell you that Alex is a stand-up guy and knows how to catch fish. The trips that I've gone on with him out of Hatteras are some of the best trips that I've ever had. We fished out of his 26' Sea Ray and had a great time. Alex put us on fish every day and did not hesitate to share his methods and skills.

My advice - if you get the opportunity to fish with him. take it.

Bill Walker

Evening Bill,

Good to hear the sound of your 'electronic voice' old friend.

Thanks for the kind words.

Kind words aside, I'll be darned if we didn't get skunked today. 3 measley bites and not one of them got the hook.

At least it was as pretty a day as you'll see in Hatteras in October. i'll thank God again for that.

I ran North but not far enough. Apparently a couple of the boys ran even farther and did pretty well with the tuna.

[bigg09]

quoted from another post fromthe coast guard in the wolrdwide forum here on sportfisherman

Sharing Expenses - 46 CFR 175.400

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The question comes up several times a year regarding the sharing of expenses for trips. It is OK to in accordance with 46 CFR 175.400, with profit being the key word in the regulation.

If you are a boat owner, a copy of this (or the actual regulations) would be good to have. You never know when you will run across an overachiever looking to move up the ranks. Although its address specifically to Hampton Roads, the federal laws apply everywhere.

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Legal Operation of Charter Boats-Guidance for Masters

This message is intended to provide clarification to recreational boaters seeking people to share expenses in the Hampton Roads area.
It is illegal for an uninspected vessel engaged in passenger for hire operations to be operated by an individual who is not licensed by the U.S. Coast Guard. Specifically, each uninspected passenger vessel of less than 100 gross tons as defined by 46 CFR 24.10-1 that carries six passengers or less, including one or more passengers for hire, must be under the direction and control of an individual licensed by the U.S. Coast Guard. The license must be kept in the operator’s possession (46 CFR 26.20-1). In addition to needing a licensed operator, each uninspected passenger vessel must meet all safety requirements outlined in 46 CFR 25.

Additionally, in accordance with 46 CFR 175.110, if a vessel carries more than six passengers, including at least one for hire, it must meet all Coast Guard safety requirements for an inspected passenger vessel.
The question of at what point an individual becomes a “passenger for hire” has caused confusion but is very straightforward. “Passenger for hire” means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having interest in the vessel (46 CFR 24.10-1). Therefore, requiring strangers to share expenses constitutes a passenger for hire operation.

“Consideration” means an economic benefit or profit including payment of money or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or supplies. It does not include a voluntary sharing of the actual expense of the voyage (46 CFR 175.400).

If a vessel carries just one individual passenger, or “hop on,” who provides anything more than a voluntary sharing of the actual cost of the trip, the vessel is operating as a passenger vessel and requires a Coast Guard licensed operator. If more than six passengers are involved, the vessel will require certification as a Coast Guard inspected vessel, as well as a licensed operator. In other words, if the owner, charterer, operator, agent or anyone else who has an interest in the vessel receives any money, fuel, or supplies that the passenger did not freely choose to share as part of the actual cost of the trip, the vessel is carrying a passenger for hire and must meet the following requirements:
(1) The master in command of a passenger for hire vessel must be an individual licensed by the U.S. Coast Guard.
(2) Vessels carrying more than six passengers, in which at least one is for hire, must be inspected and certified by the U.S. Coast Guard.
(3) This inspection includes but is not limited to certificates and documents, navigation safety, structural integrity, general health and safety, ground tackle, lifesaving equipment, fire protection, machinery/electrical equipment,
pollution prevention, and completion of emergency drills. Different regulations apply depending on service and route.

It is important to consider potential liability for violating these rules. If a passenger receives an injury as minor as a fishhook in their finger, the owner may face insurance liability. In addition, many boat loans have conditions in their terms that the vessel may not be used for commercial purposes. If an operator takes a paying passenger onboard without meeting the requirements for an inspected vessel and the passenger is injured or drowns, the vessel may be held to the inspected passenger vessel standard for purposes of criminal liability. If the operator does not have a license and was operating the vessel as an inspected passenger vessel, their insurance company may deny a claim. Compared to this legal and financial distress, acquiring a Coast Guard license and passing a Coast Guard passenger vessel inspection are much less burdensome tasks.
It is the owner’s responsibility to determine the legal requirements applicable to the type of operation in which the vessel is to be employed and to ensure every requirement is fully complied with before operations begin.

The Coast Guard is committed to the enforcement of all applicable federal regulations for passenger vessels. In accordance with Coast Guard Notice of Violation policies, maximum civil penalties up to $1,100 for failure to have a valid Coast Guard license in possession and available when vessel is carrying passenger(s) for hire will be sought in cases involving unlicensed operators in accordance with 46 CFR 26.20-1, and licensed operators found to be operating in violation of applicable regulations will face suspension and/or revocation of their merchant mariner credentials. The Coast Guard may notify operators’ banks and insurance companies which may change rates and coverage. In addition, the Cost Guard will submit leads to the IRS for unreported income that could result in civil fines and criminal prosecution by the IRS.

Further, we will take steps to educate the public in the area about federal requirements for passenger vessels. It is our goal that an educated consumer will seek out only properly licensed operators for their business to ensure their safety.

If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact my staff at the following address and telephone number:
Sector Hampton Roads
Inspections Division
200 Granby St. Suite 700
Norfolk, VA 23510
(757) 668-5511

[alexcraig]

quoted from another post fromthe coast guard in the wolrdwide forum here on sportfisherman

Sharing Expenses - 46 CFR 175.400

Good advice.

For just that reason, I've got the boat totally legit for Chartering to include all necessary documenation, permits TWIC card, insurance, random drung testing membership, etc. etc.

Even though I have no intention of running a Charter Boat business which will turn a profit, I think it is prudent.

I was somewhat taken aback at all the hoops a charter boat operation has to jump through these days.