Retention info??

[Rodney Davis]

Exactly. The recs are mad that THEY blew away their OWN quota. And NOW they are mad that some restrictions look like they will be put in place. Give me a friggin break. It is beyond laughable.

To the Rec guys that respect the fish and the quotas this is not directed at you.

I mentioned it before but I'll say it again....Awhile back the general guys got together and asked NMFS how they wanted their piece of the pie divided up i.e. monthly quotas and NMFS listened.

I suggest the Recs do the same. Come up with a plan on how you want to fish and how you want your quota caught and how YOU WANT ACCURATE CATCH DATA. But I believe most of you don't want accurate data becasue it would shut down the fishery even quicker than you think. A la right now because NC has decent reporting.

Come up with something reasonable and NMFS will definitely listen. Sounds like you'lll need to work with other states (NC, VA, NY, NJ etc.). As someone mentioned earlier it's not just Mass tuna.

And if you don't do anything you'lll be at the mercy of what NMFS comes up with which like I said before I doubt you will like. And it sounds like you're not happy right now with the proposal.

But stop bothering the commercial guys who have a strict quota in place and do not excede their quota.

We all need to try to figure out a way to make the fishery equitable for everyone. We went over last year according to the data that was gatherd by an organization that doesn't seem to be on our side. I'm not saying we didn't go over but it is a federal fishery so why are they counting fish diferently in NC than they are up here? Why do all the states involved share one quota? Can NC, or any other southern state hammer the fish before we even get a chance to go after them ourselves? We should get ABTA involved to get the same system in all the states when it comes to counting fish. The system we have up here sucks. As I mentioned earlier in another thread I'm new to this, I'd like to see it last so my kids can take me out when I'm old and enjoy the same or better bft fishery. We need to stop bashing each other and fix the problem ourselves. If WE don't come up with a solution then someone else will.

[chumtini]

Maybe I wasn't clear. NMFS manages quotas and any in-season adjustments. The tags are used for reliable tracking purposes only. Otherwise, you'll just create more problems.

Tag-scam #1: Let's suppose you limit tags to 1 per permit. I guarantee there will be people pulling tags that don't even fish just. They'll sell the tags to anyone just to make a buck. How much do you think these tags would be worth? Look around. Most here have invested thousands of hard earned $$$.

I can think up all sorts of scenarios. I haven't seen a tag system in this thread that works. And this has to work for everybody since NMFS has clumped CHBs and recs into one group.

The problem with the phone thing is there are times a phone is not available. I'm notorious for dropping phones overboard.

That's all I was trying to say.

[Captain Greg Sears]

Chris I do believe the reason we have a problem with the Bluefin and other species on Stellwagen Bank and other places in our oceans is.... Overfishing by commercial entities not overfishing by Anglers with fishing poles and small boats. You have shown the same sentiment regarding the commercial Herring fleets. The Herring where commercial fished until we could not find them and because of your efforts we now have herring returning to our waters ( Thanks for your work).This is why I have animosity against commercial fishing when a stock is low. And I believe that the last people who should be allowed to fish should be the guy who owns a boat or rents a boat that wants to go catch his own dinner.

And yes Chris I have a problem with the AP system ( Not necessarily you... I do not know what you say at these meetings.) I have a problem because the AP's are appointed people not elected. Even though you say you have no power to make the laws. You do have the power to persuade as you said an AP member suggested the slot size. I have been told by other AP members that they are only there to represent themselves and have no obligation to represent anyone else. And at least one person puts his fishing organization affiliations on his emails as though he represented us. when our organization voted against the things he is asking for, limited Access for one. I also know that there are closed door meetings and emails sent to HMS employees by some of the AP members lobbying there own Ideas. You see nothing wrong with this? Its not just the Tuna it is all the fisheries.

But I also think you put your heart and sole into your belief and you represent your own Ideas to the full extent. I have no one to blame but myself for not getting involved a long time ago. And maybe some of my aggravation is fueled by this. I was ostracized for starting a proposal for a charter fishing category two years ago because I wanted that quota taken from the commercial side not the rec side. And as you see from these threads the commercial guys still refuse to give up any quota. (Was this an option at the AP meeting?)

I have made several attempts to create resources for money and data for all of the organizations involved in saving fishing. But I have become very frustrated trying to get anyone to even investigate these resources including you with CHOIR.

The big problem here is to many people want to catch a fish that has a limited Quota. NMFS, ICCAT and the system are to blame. Is the Stock assessment correct I see a lot of fish? Is it fair Japan gets a quota in the western Atlantic? As someone else said 20,000 Rec permits equals about 100 pounds of fish per person when a fish could potentially weigh 1000 pounds the numbers do not match. But this problem would not exist if these fish had the value of Dog fish. In my opinion this industry should be treated just like the land animals we hunt. Imagine if white tail deer could be sold for $10 per pound what types of restrictions would we have. The Buffalo was sold to extinction and years later we are allowed to hunt them and raise them for money again. Should I be allowed to purse seine Large Mouth Bass before a guy can go out in his back yard and catch one for dinner.

I believe the last people that should be allowed to fish should be the recreational angler. And if it means closing or having to share Commercial Quota I have no problem.

Chris you will not stop writing on this thread because you believe you are right and I applaud you for showing a great interest. But I also will continue to show my belief's and will not discredit anyone else. You know I am not completely out of context with some of my last post's however they are vague in some instances in order to not point the finger at any one individual. Or to create a long winded post like this. I only want things to be fair to everyone.

I am now going out to the bank to scout out some tuna for next week. If I find them I will let everyone know where the fish are, even the commercial guys.

Lets just sprinkle a little water around to put out this fire and get a cup of coffee.

[KP161]

We all need to try to figure out a way to make the fishery equitable for everyone. We went over last year according to the data that was gatherd by an organization that doesn't seem to be on our side. I'm not saying we didn't go over but it is a federal fishery so why are they counting fish diferently in NC than they are up here? Why do all the states involved share one quota? Can NC, or any other southern state hammer the fish before we even get a chance to go after them ourselves? We should get ABTA involved to get the same system in all the states when it comes to counting fish. The system we have up here sucks. As I mentioned earlier in another thread I'm new to this, I'd like to see it last so my kids can take me out when I'm old and enjoy the same or better bft fishery. We need to stop bashing each other and fix the problem ourselves. If WE don't come up with a solution then someone else will.

Good points. It's all in who gets the fish first for the year...My point being we typically get the giants up in New England first. In years past when the commercial fishery was good up in New England we would fill the entire quota. Now what would this do for the guys in NC that wanted to catch and sell some fish in Dec & Jan? They would have no quota left. So a portion of the quota was set aside for this NC fishery. I believe it is in place say for instance this year we close out the quota this year by October. The NC guys will have a fishery in Dec.

As far as the Rec fishery it seems that the guys in NC, VA etc. get the fish first like this spring. My point is the Recs need to band together and come up with a system how they want to fill their quota. It takes some time & effort to get it set up.

[hotjigs]

i guess that the nmfs can't count

[turbor2]

Looks like we all have to stop fishing for BFT and start fishing for Halibut & Swords. Oh yeah I forgot that the rec. guys fished them out to!

[Tunacious-45]

The only comment I have here is the slamming of the Charter/Headboat permit holders. I 've had one since they came out many years ago...here's my situation and correct me if I'm wrong....

I rarely charter for school bluefin (2 or 3 trips a year), but I do fish ever year commercially for giants and I have for over 20 years. I run canyon charters where we fish for tuna, sharks and swordfish. In order for me to take a charter to fish for and keep any of the above mentioned fish I need to have a charter/headboat permit not a General Cat permit.

[Junior11]

Tunacious, I wasn't trying to slam all the charter/headboat permit holders.

All I was saying is that if you don't claim fishing as a business on your income tax then you shouldn't be able to hold the charter/headboat permit. I may be missing something here.

After a few years of not showing a profit they tell you that you can no longer claim a business because it is a hobby.

The reason I say this is that there are going to be people, for example Greg, that have the charter clientel that pay a lot to go tuna fishing. They love the thrill, but they also love taking home the meat. I don't know his rates, but it is going to be a tough pill to swallow if the trend becomes a catch and release trip for 1200+.

The number of people that are claiming a legit business that hold the charter/headboat permit is greatly outnumbered by those who claim the fishing as a hobby on their income tax.

Not trying to slam anyone; but it is tough to make an arguement for people like Greg and others while there are people that have the charter/headboat permit that are not financially dependent on doing charters or commercial fishing.

Either that or break it down to sub-categories, which would be even harder. Break it down to boats or fisherman that are dependent on the permit for INCOME and those who use it to supplement their expenses. Let those who need to be able to run a charter or two and commercial fish a little bit, but claim as a hobby fish under either the rec or commercial rules. Let those who are truly dependent on the charter and commercial industry get a permit where they are allowed to keep a bluefin less than 73" on a charter, regardless of size.

[bluefintuna1945]

The only constant about this fishery is change. Many here know much more about the history than I do but it is very clear the swings that have taken place over the years.

We all have skin in this game so we would be far better off working to a good solution rather than bashing each other.

Back in the 60's, before the Magnuson Act of 1976 the huge foreign fleet had their way in our waters. Surfing the web you find that they were taking 35,000-60,000 metric tons of basically school bluefin from the Western Atlantic. That is in the order of 3,000,000 fish a year. In the 70's with the new regs that dropped to "only" about 5,000MT a year; still 300,000 fish out of the population. Contrast that to the 54MT taken in 2009, 2,600 fish.

Last year 2,600 school and 7,700 lg school and small medium. In 2005 is was the reverse 7,700 and 2,060; this maybe a sign of simply the same year class growing up?

In 1992 the were 11,608 permits but only 8% caught a fish. For the 3 years 1990-93 omly 156 permit holders caught at least one fish each of the three years. Has that ratio stayed the same over all these years? Likely yes.

Talk today about reducing the commercial quota or the number of fish a day is meaningless until or unless more than 52% of the quota is caught. Many here will remember the "old days", 10 years ago, with a one fish a day quota, and 2 or 3 closed days a week. The J-J-A quota would fill by early Aug. The Sept qouta would fill in 10-15 days and the Oct in maybe 3 days. Now with 3 fish a day and no closed days only half the giant quota is taken.

Only 5 trophy being reported is a joke. With hundreds of rec boats fishing how many really were caught and either not reported or "given" to commercials to sell?

We took a total of 1,000MT last year,10,000 fish last year. Compare that to what? 30,000-40,000-50,000MT in the Eastern Atlantic. We are a rounding error compared to them. Or how about the 100,000-200,000 that are swimming in pens and out of the potential breeding population.

The 7,725 caught by recs last year averaged about 145 pounds--about 62 inches. That class of fish will be pushing 70 this year with some hitting the 73 inch mark. The giants taken averaged 480 pounds, thats a 90-92 inch fish. There seems to be a big gap in the lower giant sizes. So will it be a few years before a decent class of real giants is around?

Finally, and this is NOT to knock the rec charter guys (who are trying to make a living) but I did have to laugh at the comments that their charters will be happy to fish catch and release. If that is the case then why did most of them kill every fish allowed last year, why all the brag pictures on the web sites? The reality is if one is allowed to take one fish they will. If they can take 10 many will do that as well.
Back in the late 70's and early 80's I fished with the now famous Al Anderson each year. He of course is the tag master of catch and release. Back then he had a diffferent attitude. I would be embarrased to show you some of the dock pictures of four of us with 30-40 or even 50 school fish dead on the dock. We each took maybe 1 or 2 home, Al took the rest.

I hope some rational solutions can be found so we all can enjoy this fishery for many mnay years.