Max Drag Specs - Divide by 3

[pametfisher]

Earlier in the year, after measuring all my spinning reels for maximum drag, I concluded that the Max Drag spec for spinning reels was an EMPTY SPOOL number. (See: Spinning Reel Maximum Drag Specifications about the middle of the page.)

Since I hadn't measured a large number of conventional reels, I was unwilling to say that would be the case for them too but I suspected it. This weekend, I came across some photos on the Everol web site that clearly show that drags are almost always specified at empty spool when the "effective diameter" of the spool is smallest (nothing wrong with that).

Look at the attached photo of the Everol 4/0. First, you can see that the full spool (top arc of numbers) shows a maximum drag of 10 lbs. Then, looking at the bottom arc, you can see that 30 lbs. is the maximum drag with the lever forward. Lastly, notice that below the name 4/0 on the reel is the number 30 lbs.

This is not just an Everol reel phenomenon but they are one of the few companies to be clear and honest about the design and performance of their product. I applaud them.

This doesn't mean that you can't over tighten the drag adjusting screw to obtain more than 10 lbs. at full spool, but there are a couple important implications:

1. If you try for more than 10 lbs. at full spool, you will likely be asking the reel for 3X more heat dissipation than it was designed to achieve if you hook a large fish.

2. You will have fully compressed the drag spring and will be overloading the screw threads of the tightening mechanism. This will also lead to poor free spool performance.

So here's a simple rule of thumb since the diameter of most spools varies by 2.5:1 or 3.0:1 from full spool to empty spool: when you see a Max Drag specification, divide it by 2.5 or 3 to know the maximum drag that you should expect at full spool.

So for example, this means that a Stella FA or SW, (on which I've measured the diameters) with a Max Drag spec of 55 lbs., should be expected to produce about 20 lbs. when the spool is full. And in the case of an Everol 4/0 (thanks Everol for being clear) with a 30 lb. Max Drag spec, the full spool number is 10 lbs. and a Saragosa 18K with a 44 lb. spec. was designed for 16 lbs. at full spool. Can you get more drag than these numbers, yes, but you're overloading the mechanics, and may overload the heat dissipation design when you do.

[Sea Draggin]

Good informative post Pamet. Thanks.

Those Everols have always been interesting to me.

[TommyTuna]

that makes a hell of a lot of sense - would you also lead to the conclusion that just changing drag washers wouldn't materially change the reasonable max drag amount since the rest of the drag system isn't being altered?

[pametfisher]

that makes a hell of a lot of sense - would you also lead to the conclusion that just changing drag washers wouldn't materially change the reasonable max drag amount since the rest of the drag system isn't being altered?

Changing drag washers can add a bit of drag if they are higher friction and have better thermal characteristics. However, it doesn't change the volume of metal in the metal drag washers, nor does it strengthen the gear train and bearings, nor does it do much to alter heat dissipation.

[sony guerra]

that is some good information. who needs 30 0r 50 pounds of drag while jigging is alot more fun to let the fish run and make the reel scream loud.

[paul708]

nice Chart and info as always.

[Dr. Rob]

Ehm... I don't quite know where to begin...

Dear Pametfisher, (and others)

Thank you for a clear and appreciative post. However, there seem to be some fundamental misunderstandings on both a physical and technical level as well as somewhat erroneous conclusions drawn therefrom.

It is a good thing that you are more observant than the casual fisherman and willing to contemplate the meaning of things you see, and I applaud this.

But...

Hmm, where to begin... I'm a bit pressed for time and won't be able to write very well... let me just jot some stuff down and you guys can do the best you can with it:

My name is Rob; I work with Everol. I took that picture; the hand and thumb are my own. The brick wall is the one in my shop; you see it in several pics. It just happens to be a convenient background.

I don't like to pick apart your post, but I need somewhere to start.

"some photos on the Everol web site that clearly show that drags are almost always specified at empty spool..."

Absolutely not. Everol measures their drag from a full spool. The drag scale shows how effective drag changes as line on the spool diminishes, without adjusting the lever.

"Lastly, notice that below the name 4/0 on the reel is the number 30 lbs."

Yes-- those numbers are the IGFA tournament line class category to which the reel applies. Everol still uses the /0 designation while many others use the IGFA line class system of 20, 30, 50, 80 and so on. These numbers have nothing to do with, and never did, drag.

The same applies to the chart below: This is a line capacity chart. It has no relevance to this subject.

"This is not just an Everol reel phenomenon but they are one of the few companies to be clear and honest about the design and performance of their product. I applaud them."

Thanks. You're right. This applies to all reels. Physics.

The drag on the 4/0 may seem wimpy, but please bear in mind it follows the rule of thumb of setting drag at 1/3 of breaking strength. FWIW, Everol also has another 4/0 which has been modified to apply to more demanding game fishing with spectra lines-- a two speed, and maximum drag is closer to 40 lbs.


"1. If you try for more than 10 lbs. at full spool, you will likely be asking the reel for 3X more heat dissipation than it was designed to achieve if you hook a large fish."

No. As said above, this change in effective drag is a result of physics. The drag lever has not been moved, the drag mechanism has not been altered, and the pressure within the mechanism has not changed. The only body who notices anything is the fish. And the guy holding the rod.

"2. You will have fully compressed the drag spring and will be overloading the screw threads of the tightening mechanism. This will also lead to poor free spool performance."

Oh, idunno. Don't worry about the drag components; they were built to last. And the Everol Special Series is a trolling reel; they weren't made to freespool very well anyway.

"...Stella FA or SW... with a Max Drag spec of 55..."

I cannot comment on what other manufacturers say or do, and don't really care. Honestly, the entire Max Drag Spec is a made-up quantification that first appeared on internet boards several years ago. The PR and advertising folks at some companies followed suit and made use of it. The idea seems to have taken root and taken far stronger hold than I'd feared, and now some folks use it as an indication of quality. Sigh.

I'm gld to see that someone has questioned the validity of this. It should also be considered which parameters may constitute "Maximum Drag" Using pliers on the preset and a hammer on the lever, is that okay? Or having the drag set so tight that the reel is difficult to turn? Or perhaps a more reasonable range from freespool to maximum as allowed with a thumb on the lever and without detrimental side effects?

A word or two on drag range might be in order as well.. Many reels have a claimed (by themselves or by users) drag range of say, thirty pounds. This is often untrue, since a reel may indeed max at thirty, but then the preset is set so tight that the useable range of drag begins at twelve pounds. Well what about one-to-twelve? Thirty minus twelve equals a range of seventeen, not thirty.

That about that then... Other posts...

" Originally Posted by TommyTuna:
that makes a hell of a lot of sense - would you also lead to the conclusion that just changing drag washers wouldn't materially change the reasonable max drag amount since the rest of the drag system isn't being altered?"
Changing drag washers can add a bit of drag if they are higher friction and have better thermal characteristics. However, it doesn't change the volume of metal in the metal drag washers, nor does it strengthen the gear train and bearings, nor does it do much to alter heat dissipation."

Yes, quite right. And thank you for bringing up the issue of heat dissipation. It alone is one of the more important aspects of efficient drag design, as extremely large amounts of heat can be generated in a very short time.

There we go... I hope I set some things straight here. Again, thanks everyone for good posts and insight, and I hope no confusion or offense should arise.

Doc.

.

[Sea Draggin]

Dr. Rob,
Welcome to our forum. I leave the technical stuff to Pamet, but do appreciate the time input into the topic.

I do however have a question. Italy has many fishermen that deep vertical jig. Has everol made any jig specific reels?

Thx

[Dr. Rob]

Yes, we do. We previewed it at ICAST, and the first run just sold out essentially immediately.

It is called the VJ-12, and I'll try to come back later with more info.

.

[TBaker]

Dr. Rob:
Thanks for the post, but I think there may be some misunderstandings:

"some photos on the Everol web site that clearly show that drags are almost always specified at empty spool..."

Absolutely not. Everol measures their drag from a full spool. The drag scale shows how effective drag changes as line on the spool diminishes, without adjusting the lever.

Actually, I believe Roger (Pametfisher) was complementing you (Everol) for accurately displaying the drag scale on your reels. His point was that by looking at your accurate drag scale, it seems clear the OTHER manufacturers specify their max drag at an empty spool (not to mention they don't specify a drag scale at all).

"1. If you try for more than 10 lbs. at full spool, you will likely be asking the reel for 3X more heat dissipation than it was designed to achieve if you hook a large fish."

No. As said above, this change in effective drag is a result of physics. The drag lever has not been moved, the drag mechanism has not been altered, and the pressure within the mechanism has not changed. The only body who notices anything is the fish. And the guy holding the rod.

I believe Roger wasn't referring to effective drag, but to the angler attempting to set the drag for more than 10 lbs. at full spool. Certainly there is no disagreement between you and Roger on effective drag. Effective drag, exactly as you describe it, is one of many valuable points Roger has made in this and other forums.

I think you and Roger are pretty much on the same page here.