Max Drag Specs - Divide by 3

[pametfisher]

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Whoa. What an unreal thread. I may be coerced into adding something, but haven't had time to read and digest it all. I'm just impressed by the apparent amount of technical savvy. (i've read a gazillion of similar threads; they are often out in left field)

Looking forward to that, but really I just came by with a reply to the original post that started it all. Obviously the thread has grown past this, but I'll add it anyway and maybe come back again for the rest.

"Ehm... I don't quite know where to begin...

Dear Pametfisher, (and others)

Thank you for a clear and appreciative post. However, there seem to be some fundamental misunderstandings on both a physical and technical level as well as somewhat erroneous conclusions drawn therefrom.

It is a good thing that you are more observant than the casual fisherman and willing to contemplate the meaning of things you see, and I applaud this.

...

Doc.

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As Tbaker said, I think that Dr. Rob and I are pretty much in agreement. I really like what Everol is doing, being clear. Having said that, I wrote this reply earlier today with some clarifications, in case that helps.


Hey Doc Rob! Welcome to the thread. It's great to have someone representing a reel company actually weigh in on this. And don't worry a bit about hurting anyone's feelings, least of all mine. My deepest interest is in line systems, of which drags become an item of related importance. I hope that you can add to this thread which has drawn some good insights.

Some thoughts after reading your reply:

Thanks for pointing out that the 30 lb. below 4/0 is for Line Class for IGFA purposes. It seems that it is only coincidently the same as the drag number on the label at empty spool. Taking that reel as an example, what is the approximate full spool maximum drag that the 4/0 is able to achieve? Or is the important spec the 30 lb. line class?

Something we agree on, after being set, drag systems produce a constant drag-torque-resistance. Geometry does the rest of the work, as the spool diameter goes down, the lbs. force on the line goes up. Although this applies to all reels, most manufacturers don't even give the notion lip service. Accurate, in its manuals, says in one sentence that drag is precisely constant, and then in the next talks about another phenomenon which is exactly due to diminishing radius of the spool (then proceeds to get the math wrong). BTW, your products don't seem whimpy at all, and do appear to be well designed and thought through.

1. About heat dissipation, you're right and wrong. You're right that drag torque-resistance is constant (for a given pressure setting, independent of the amount of line on the spool) and it is the fish that feels the extra force from the diminishing radius. However, as the spool's diameter diminishes, the spool is spun more times per yard of line that the fish takes. For example, at half the diamenter, spool spins twice as many times for each yard of line--meaning more heat per yard as the drag force on the fish goes up. In thermodynamic terms, if the fish is doing more work, the drag is dissipating more heat.

Speaking of thermodynamics, could you give us a figure for the thermal conductivity of the carbon fiber drag material? Also, what is the thermal path that the heat takes from the drag system to the air, primarily through the spool or the case?

2. The over-tightening of a drag knob comment by me was from my experience with dozens of spinning reels. BTW, every spinning reel I've tested creates about half its Max Drag at full spool unless it is over tightened.

Your question about what constitutes Max Drag is a good one. On a spinning reel, I believe it should be with the spool filled to 1/8" from lip, with the cap tightened until the cap spring bottoms, and then backed off a half turn.

I agree with you that Max Drag is not a quality indicator. The real thing we light tackle guys want to know is something like, at Max Drag, how many runs of 200 yards before the drag overheats?

Lastly, we agree that a large fish can generate tons of heat in a short time. A fish that pulls 200 yards of line at 20 lbs. drag generates almost 400 Watts of heat. What temperature do you estimate the small steel washers in your drags reach under those conditions? How many minutes to cool to half the peak temperature?

Great to have you join the thread,
PF

[Dr. Rob]

Whoa, I just wrote a longass post at the other forum. We're getting along just fine, but it's way too late to write another. Maybe tomorrow.

G'night.

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[Dr. Rob]

Just a quick note for Seadraggin...

Here a a couple of quick pics of the new Everol VJ. I'm not sure why this one is purple. I presume others will be gold.





And a quick info blurb:

VERTICAL JIGGER: VJ12

A new one from Everol, a 12 size reel with a gear ratio of 6.2 - 1 capable of putting on an awsome 40lbs of drag. (that's at full spool, btw) Holds 450 mtrs. of 20lb mono or 675 of 12lb. Weighs 20 ounces with a power handle. Six, double shielded, stainless steel ball bearings and one ant-reverse bearing. Can be fitted with an optional extra of a drag release button which allows free spool without moving the lever drag. Everols latest colour schemes, Violet/purple body with gold fittings.
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I haven't seen the production models yet (got busy on another project) so I'm not sure if it is in there, but earlier on I designed a unique cam that gives an absolutely full range of drag, from freespool to 40 lbs, on a huge 260° arc of the lever. This means the reel's drag has a wide, easy, softly adjustable range. Ideal for sensitive strikes... and lots of power.

It also has a wide spool thumbing flange and a spool braking button for the drop. Very ergonomic. The reel is supposed to work with you, not you for it.

I don't know about price or availability. I suggest you contact Keith Wichmann, head of Everol USA. I think he has posted here sometime earlier, or you can just google it.

Doc.

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[Sea Draggin]

Can be fitted with an optional extra of a drag release button which allows free spool without moving the lever drag.
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Do you have any more info on this.

Also, why such a high speed? Can it be refitted to be a 4:1?

One more question, what kind of drag material is used in these?