What Gonna Happen??????

[Fritz]

Guys, I respectfully disagree. Some of our fisheries are in excellent shape. Some are in much better shape then they were in 10 or 20 years ago. Some of them do need help, but not all, and I don't buy this "all fisheries will be exhausted by 2040" crap.

Here are some facts from fishing in NJ since about 1980:

- The fluke fishing is the best it's ever been, and the estimated stock biomass is the highest it has ever been in recorded history
- There are more school size bluefin tuna around now then in the mid 90's.
- The yellowfin and longfin fishery in the NE canyons could not be a whole lot better.
- While there are far fewer bigeye tuna around then in the "old days" as described by Tred Barta, there were more this year then in the last 20 years
- There are more swordfish in the NE canyons then anytime in the last 20 years
- There are about a million times more striped bass around then there were twenty years ago.
- Strict cutbacks in Blackfishing (Tog) have brought the fishery back
- Despite all the competition from the record numbers of bass, bluefish stocks are healthy and continue to provide a consistent fishery

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of issues, many of which I can't comment on cause I don't know enough about. However, some I am aware of include:

- Giant Bluefin are in serious trouble, largely due to enormous fishing pressure world wide and the insatiable demand on the Japanese sushi market. Since bluefin breed later then other tuna, this has put the entire species in jeaporday.
- Longliners had a devastating effect on swordfish for a long time. While the stocks continue to rebound, any re-issuing of permits or re-opening of closed areas even for "research" will put the fishery at risk.
- Large coastal sharks - especially game sharks like Makos - are in serious decline. While 97% of sharks are harvested commercially worldwide, and largely for their fins, a significant number of sharks are landed by recreational anglers. A catch-and-release culture is needed for sharks much like what exists today for nearly all species of billfish.

So, while there are plenty of issues and many species that are over fished or need protection, there are also plenty of examples of fish making a strong rebound. What we need is real science and a realistic management plan for all species moving forward.

Not to be disrespectful, but some of your facts are more like opinions. I am a bit older than you at 47 and remember a bit more. Here is how I see it and I believe some of the guys older than me will agree:

1. In the late sixties and early seventies you could sit outside Cape May Inlet and fill a trash can with Flounder. No more. Some improvement has occured in the last few years, but we have a long way to go.
2. Weakfish in the sixties and seventies- You could fill a box with Tide Runners and these fish were all huge. Not the spikes you see now.
3. White Marlin- Some improvement over the last couple of years, but back in the day you could have multiple fish inside the 30 fathom curve on a given day.
4. Bluefin- In the sixties and seventies, you could troll them at places like Delaware Light Ship, until you were knee deep in them using nothing but 4 rods and some feathers and cedar plugs.
5. Yellowfin- As little as 15 years ago, you could go out to the 30 curve [Elephant Trunk, etc.] in the third or fourth week of June and see acres and acres of tuna fish busting on the surface. {Not rats either}
6. Big Eye- Don't forget there are a lot more boats out there than there used to be, so it may seem like there are more. Trust me, there aren't.
7. Swordfish- Making a comeback, but now that they opened the closed area again to long lines, they won't be around too much longer.
8. Blue Marlin- There seem to more around, but I just think we got better at catching them and the additonal boats mean more found fish.
9. Giant Tuna and sharks- Well I think everybody knows the deal.

[OffTheHook13]

The bottom line(no pun) is, we need a much much better management system.

But, everything is always about money.

He who has the most wins.

[Green Machine]

Some causes ar not quite as clear but can still be attributed to man. Trying to help in the end may hurt. Protecting dogfish has decimated forage stocks for other more desirable species stocks. As much as we love striped bass they are another that may have grown just a little too big and thus the near erradication of the winter flounder.

Fisheries management has been a political interest bs program from the beginning. It needs to be totally scrapped and redone. I'm not gonna get on the circle hook soapbox here but that rule was implimented and their own figures state that it should save about eighty white marlin a year, at a cost of millions to rec interests... Then they open the sword nursery to longliners down in white marlin country despite a near 100% public rejection of the idea.

Excellent points in there.

Not to be disrespectful, but some of your facts are more like opinions. I am a bit older than you at 47 and remember a bit more. Here is how I see it and I believe some of the guys older than me will agree:

1. In the late sixties and early seventies you could sit outside Cape May Inlet and fill a trash can with Flounder. No more. Some improvement has occured in the last few years, but we have a long way to go.
2. Weakfish in the sixties and seventies- You could fill a box with Tide Runners and these fish were all huge. Not the spikes you see now.
3. White Marlin- Some improvement over the last couple of years, but back in the day you could have multiple fish inside the 30 fathom curve on a given day.
4. Bluefin- In the sixties and seventies, you could troll them at places like Delaware Light Ship, until you were knee deep in them using nothing but 4 rods and some feathers and cedar plugs.
5. Yellowfin- As little as 15 years ago, you could go out to the 30 curve [Elephant Trunk, etc.] in the third or fourth week of June and see acres and acres of tuna fish busting on the surface. {Not rats either}
6. Big Eye- Don't forget there are a lot more boats out there than there used to be, so it may seem like there are more. Trust me, there aren't.
7. Swordfish- Making a comeback, but now that they opened the closed area again to long lines, they won't be around too much longer.
8. Blue Marlin- There seem to more around, but I just think we got better at catching them and the additonal boats mean more found fish.
9. Giant Tuna and sharks- Well I think everybody knows the deal.

No offense taken and I am sure you are right - however I think you are in some instances going back to before (from what I understand - I was not around) the purse seiners hammered the tuna and everything else in this area and changed everything. My grandpa used to troll a couple rods with drone spoons 2-3 miles offshore and catch tuna every time he went out, so I have heard those stories, I just think they are from a long time ago. I have been tuna fishing both inshore and offshore north of you in NJ for over twenty years and we never have had the kind of fishing you are talking about in that timeframe.

I am sure the fishing was so much better for every species back then (talking 60's and 70's), it's not even debatable... but has the fishing gotten worse or better in the last 10 or 20 years? For some species, I believe it has improved in that time frame, that is all I am saying. Certainly there are some for which it has gotten worse... but it isn't all doom and gloom. Fisheries can be managed when the right science is available.

Final note, on the flounder topic - agree with Deep the winter flounder have been decimated and perhaps dogfish and bass are the reason - but there are a ton of party boat captains I know who will tell you this is the best fluke fishing has ever been. Even the president of the Bogan fleet up here (they have four boats) says it's the best it's been in the 77 years they have operated party boats targeting fluke.

[flatbottom]

I will refer to the Delaware bay in this reply as an example. In the 80's the bay was topped off with big tide runners. The bay had fairly clean water and an adequate supply of food keeping the trout healthy and happy. I will not say why the trout left. I will say the reasons(opinion) why the stock fell apart. First you have a major shipping traffic lane dividing the bay in half. The tankers have had oil spills over the years.This is major. Next we have a nuke plant in the upper river with huge cool water intakes. Small fry gather near the warm water discharge over the winter and eventually become pulled in. Another major. Further on we had Delaware fishermen, Jersey fishermen, Pennsylvania fishermen, and Maryland fishermen pounding the bay in search of the trash can size catches. This is a major. Continuing on we had a talented group of gill netters. They new where the fish would go before the fish would go there. This is a major. Truck loads were removed from the bay. Next we had fleets of purse netters waiting for night fall to grab the trout on their way out of the bay. What happened over many years is the result we have today. No breeding stock. This was just the Delaware bay. I would venture a guess the same perfect process had taken place as far as the trout could migrate. Year after year after year un halted. We are the perfect predator, on land or sea. If you add all of this with a temperature change in the water, continuing spills, blooming dog fish stocks running ramped, an unbalanced ecosystem and you will find your answer. I bet there are places in the bay an oyster cracker would not want to live. To all of this add the unaccountability of NMFS ( we are predators not managers) and bingo.

I believe more so the predator has caused the reduction of fish vs the global warming scenario

[heavy389]

I will refer to the Delaware bay in this reply as an example. In the 80's the bay was topped off with big tide runners. The bay had fairly clean water and an adequate supply of food keeping the trout healthy and happy. I will not say why the trout left. I will say the reasons(opinion) why the stock fell apart. First you have a major shipping traffic lane dividing the bay in half. The tankers have had oil spills over the years.This is major. Next we have a nuke plant in the upper river with huge cool water intakes. Small fry gather near the warm water discharge over the winter and eventually become pulled in. Another major. Further on we had Delaware fishermen, Jersey fishermen, Pennsylvania fishermen, and Maryland fishermen pounding the bay in search of the trash can size catches. This is a major. Continuing on we had a talented group of gill netters. They new where the fish would go before the fish would go there. This is a major. Truck loads were removed from the bay. Next we had fleets of purse netters waiting for night fall to grab the trout on their way out of the bay. What happened over many years is the result we have today. No breeding stock. This was just the Delaware bay. I would venture a guess the same perfect process had taken place as far as the trout could migrate. Year after year after year un halted. We are the perfect predator, on land or sea. If you add all of this with a temperature change in the water, continuing spills, blooming dog fish stocks running ramped, an unbalanced ecosystem and you will find your answer. I bet there are places in the bay an oyster cracker would not want to live. To all of this add the unaccountability of NMFS ( we are predators not managers) and bingo.

I believe more so the predator has caused the reduction of fish vs the global warming scenario

I Agree wiff dem last words