What Drives You Absolutely Crazy About Liberals?

[efishnsea]

It is a fact that many have died in the name of religion of all sorts . However I beleive it keeps a lot of folks well grounded and is better for society as a whole. Liberals dont beleive in this and Big Government would be a better God.

[longfisher]

Originally Posted by Fritz

religious freedom is what our country was founded on. How dare you to tell to me to keep my ........ mouth shut, but have a great day anyway.

The country was founded upon individual liberties, religious freedom being only one of them and perhaps the least important of the lot.

I believe the founding fathers wanted to avoid the wholesale slaughter of the citizenry whenever a leader with a new religion was elected, as happened in Britain many, many times. Again, this is so typical of religious nuts...hate and perhaps kill all those who don't share with exactitude their particular belief.

I was raised Lutheran. Do you know there are two "sects" of Lutherans who, essentially, hate one another. Insanity only begins to describe that set of affairs.

ND, I can't believe we agree on anything. But here's to ya.

LongFisher

[longfisher]

efishnsea,

To your mind are all anti-religionists liberals?

LongFisher

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by nautiduck

Fritz its not so much that its offensive, (Although I wholeheartedly praise any and all such efforts to offend Dongfiddler, because his very existence offends me) I firmly defend the right of anyone to believe in any religion they so choose as long as it does not trample on the rights of others. I for one am a Pastafarian I believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster and the constitution affords me that right. But you will never see me forcing such beliefs down anyones throats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

http://www.venganza.org/

My issue comes from the prostilyzing of those who would cram their beliefs down the throats of others. The contitution protects your rights to not have the govt dictate what religion you believe in or your beliefs in general. It has been upheld that it can limit the practices.

From the First Amendment of the Constitution.
“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... "

However
In 1878, the Supreme Court was first called to interpret the extent of the Free Exercise Clause in Reynolds v. United States, as related to the prosecution of polygamy under federal law. The Supreme Court upheld Mr. Reynolds' conviction for bigamy, deciding that to do otherwise would provide constitutional protection for a gamut of religious beliefs, including those as extreme as human sacrifice. The Court said (at page 162): "Congress cannot pass a law for the government of the Territory which shall prohibit the free exercise of religion. The first amendment to the Constitution expressly forbids such legislation." Of federal territorial laws, the Court said: "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious beliefs and opinions, they may with practices."

Unfortunatley the Supreme Court has struck down any laws limiting prostilyzing. Thankfully it is illegal to in public schools and govt owned properties, and any private properties that are readily posted as such. So do the rest of us a favor believe what you want but quit trying to cram it down our throats.

Pasta Fazool to you all...

The point of my post was to let Longfisher know that I have every right to do it.

[hubris 1]

Religion is the root of ALL evil. Not all religions are right wing. In fact, I think the conservative party has done themselves a great injustice aligning themselves with the christian right. Everyone is entitled to their belief but, I think I would like to see a world without religion for a year. No god, no ali, no whatever. I'll bet we dont kill each other for that year. And he is correct. Jesus was a trouble maker in his time and executed for it the way they did it then. If you believe he came back from the dead, thats your right. Doesnt make it right. After all, what was Martin Luther King.......Who and what was Ghandi? We murdered them too you know. Maybe everytime a figure comes along that represents real good...........we kill him.

[efishnsea]

Hey Longfisher No I don,t believe all Libs are anti -religionist. But I do beleive that Liberals in general are the source of simple religious principles being forced from society. They forced simple things like a moment of silence to be thrown out of schools. Like it was some dirty religious right. What the world needs is to take a step back and realize where we came from and where we need to be. A little faith is not a bad thing no matter what you believe in as long as your not hurting someone. I am not offended by any Symbols in public as long as it doesn,t spew hate. But many Liberal judges are quick to make people put them away so nobody gets offended.

[nautiduck]

Originally Posted by Fritz

The point of my post was to let Longfisher know that I have every right to do it.

I know, I was just telling you I dont find it offensive. I get tired of people (not you this just a generality) preaching at me when they think they know my beliefs, whatever they maybe. The pastafarian thing was more or less a joke, my beliefs are mine and nobodies business. I am however especially since I have moved South, constantly preached at and degraded when people find out I was raised Catholic (10 years of Catholic school beat that out of me though). Do you know how many people down here have told me that I will burn in hell because Catholicism is not a Christian religion. Unless Im mistaken, and Im not, most all "christian" religions are off shoots of the Catholic Church which Peter the Apostle started during his confession to Jesus Christ.
My point is there are so many ignorant people claiming to be of one religion or another, that dont even know the damn history or established beliefs of their own claimed religion. I am dumbfounded when I get into discussion with people about faith who claim to be a certain type of religion and dont know what the hell their talking about. Yes I spent several years studying theology in its many aspects with a focused interest in the different Christian sects. This was due to a very severe crisis in faith when I was younger and I was searching for the answer. I found it by the way but thats none of anybodies business, besides you wouldnt like what I think anyway. Why does religion need to be brought into politics anyway? Religions only concern in politics is to create laws generated by peoples religous "morals" to tell others how they should live. Something we are all protected from by the Constitution. People need to but the fuck out of other peoples live and take care of their own. I find it amusing and disturbing that these "Champions" for religous beliefs (abortion, stem cell research) usually have the most fucked up families in regards to there own offspring. People need to mind their own damn business and quit telling me how to live, think, pray, insure, and what fish I can catch God Damn it!!!!

[longfisher]

Originally Posted by nautiduck

People need to mind their own damn business and quit telling me how to live, think, pray, insure, and what fish I can catch God Damn it!!!!

Damn. Admirable for it's near-completeness. Nice work ND.

[longfisher]

Some of you may find troubling the following brief scientific discussion of the basis for the tendancy for some to believe and others to not believe.

There is ongoing research at the molecular level of why some believe, why others don't and why there exists so many who are somewhere in between on these matters. Moreover, the hereditary patterns of belief are so striking that the tendancy to beleive cannot be ascribed purely to indoctrination. It's pretty obvious to those with genetic training that this pattern could have a genetic underpinning.

About a year or two ago Time Magazine published virtually an entire issue on the topic. The issue was entitled, "The God Gene". And, it was very convincing that there are genetic mutations in several genes that if all a present in an individual can lead to profound believe in the supernatural (I'm being kind by not using the word superstitious), including and most especially the belief in a omnipotent god. When fewer than all of these mutations are found the level of belief diminished. When all are absent there was little to no belief.

So, Christians and other religionists are mutants, or, more precisely multiple-mutants especially if they're evalgelical. The same probably goes for the super-religious Jews of the Ashkanazie branch and the Islamic Wahabi extremists, however, the study didn't examine these folks in detail.

With proper forced breeding we could likely rid the human gene pool of this pestilence which causes so much human misery. Heck, I'm all for genetic pre-screening of people for these mutations and then for their quarantine and isolation from others on a small Jurrasic Park-like island and then even into small buildings with highly pitched roofs replete with grotesque spires. Let's call them churches, cathedrals, mosques, temples, etc. and forbid them from spewing their mutant nonsense outside of those confines.

Then they wouldn't f*ck with the rest of us normal humans so much and maybe the rest of the world could finally be at peace. As it is, watching America under the thumb of the religious right (which above was correctly fingered as a manifestly corrupting influence in the Republican Party) is like watching endless end-to-end reruns of the movie Ozone Attack of the Redneck Mutants.

Longfisher

[longfisher]

Well, you make prostelitizing seem so innocent, so personal and so intimate. You make is sound like you're the victims. Well, that's not been my experience at all. And, I'll bet it's not been the experience of many on this board.

Just a little story and then a quiz, EFS. I invite others to share their experiences with prostelizers too.

This July when it was hot as all Hell I went early to the Department of Public Safety with my Son (hey, if Jesus can be referred to as Son of God with caps on so can my wonderful kid). My Son wanted to get his learners permit and arriving on time would have meant we would have sweltered in the Texas heat for hours.

As the line grew to about 30 people a young man came near the front of the line, set up a small ladder facing the crowd, ascended the ladder and then proceeded to tell us how we were all going to Hell because of our sins. He preached the most innane B.S. I've ever heard in outside of a church, where the B.S. is overflowing and entirely innane.

I couldn't leave the line without suffering consequences as mentioned above, hours in a sweltering humid furnace. His condemnations were offensive and unjustified. And, I took offense.

Within about 10 minutes of heated shouting back and forth the crowd was pretty much divided evenly between three camps, those who supported the preacher, those who supported me and those who quietly just wanted the doors of the testing facility to open so we could all be rid of that nutcase. It nearly became a riot because I and many others felt this man's actions were COERCIVE. He deliberately chose to come to this sole place (and according to others had done so for years) where people would not be inclined to leave to spew his hatred, condemnations and lies. HE WAS COERCING US.

Coercion like this is very common amoung evangelical Christians, in particular, but it's not unique there. Remember the white-robed Hari Krisha's at the airports some years ago? Recall the Mormon kids with white shirts and black ties who pound your door late at night? Account for the Jehova Witnesses who come in cars to your home and purposefully block you driveway with a car as the rest of them come to your door and begin singing hymns until you either call the cops or listen?

IT'S ALL COERCIVE. And, it's hated.

Here's the quiz part, EFNS. Do you see this too as the coercion it most surely is?

It's coercive to board a subway train and preach. They can't leave. It's coercive to stand in front of the Harris County Municipal Court Building when those summoned for juries are in line awaiting the doors to open. It's coercive to stand on a park bench when families are otherwise enjoying themselves on a Sunday afternoon and preach. It's all just coercion and effrontery.

Ironically it's even counterproductive to your cause. The only ones who listen are those who are already indoctrinated to believe. And, most of you know that your actions amount to deliberate and purposeful effrontery finely tuned to meet the barest minimum standard of conduct that keeps it just short of inciting a riot.

The fact that prostelitizing continues despite your clear knowledge that is is coercive and affrontive to most people means that you're deliberately confronting people and hoping for a heated, negative reaction. You confront me and you're going to be immediately and forcefully confronted in return. I'll give you the riot your actions seem so clearly intended to elicit.

I applaud the courts that ban the hated Christian crap from schools. I send my kid to school for an education, not for an indoctrination. Stay away from me and my family and my property. You're all freeking nuts anyway. So, stop reinforcing that belief in all of us by pissing us off.

Just go away where we can no longer hear or see you. Or, simply be silent in our presence. For such supposedly gentle, humble, harmless and conscientious people you sure do cause a lot of hate and discontent.

I hope I've opened the spigot (or flood gate) for others here who have also been coerced, intimidated or insulted by prostelitizers to tell their stories. I surely invite them to tell their stories if only so as to refute EFNC's illusion that Christian prostelitizing is the harmless practice of a religion, such practice protected by the Constitution.

LongFisher