Wanted, Replacement Aftercooler for Cat 3196

[Storm]

My Cat 3196 aftercooler has leaked into my engine once again. I would like to buy a replacement aftercooler for less than Cat's $3,600 replacement cost. My engine is currently full of sea-water and can't be operated. I will also be needing a new cylinder head. If anybody knows where I get can either of these parts from anybody but Caterpillar, please let me know.

This will make three overhauls, five replacement cylinder heads, one camshaft and a valve train assembly - all since 2003.

Caterpillar has made no attempt to contact me despite my request for assistance. The local Cat service department (Milton Cat) continues to blame condensation for the aftercooler problem. Bullshit! Every time one of my aftercoolers is pulled it has pinhole leaks. If anyone has any theories about how condensation causes pinhole leaks in a copper aftercooler, be sure to let me know.

Be assured my leaky aftercooler will be well photographed and sent to a lab for testing.

Thank you for any info regarding discounted aftercoolers. This isn't a good time financially for me to be rebuilding my engine
AGAIN.

Storm

[dunn6253]

Time for a Yanmar? Volvo? Cummins Re-con ?

[seapower]

I'm not bein' smart here, but why do you keep reviving that thing. Make a mooring out of it. When I commercial fished I had to have something I could cut on. The window's of opporunity in the commercial fishing biz are too short to have gear you can't count on. I know it's a crap load of money, but look at how much you're are loosing. Much less the aggravation. Frank

[Storm]

Between the faltering economy and the long standing engine problem, I've already lost most everything. Right now, my only choice is the cheapest way out of this mess - which is to fix what I already have. Call me gullible, but somehow I had a glimmer of hope that Cat reps were telling the truth about the reliability of the newer aftercoolers.

Mechanic says he knows someone that might be able to repair the cooler rather than replace. That's a new concept to me. Cat just trashes the old ones and charges me for the upgraded new ones. I still don't know whether or not I bent the connecting rods while cranking the engine.

I was discussing Cat's attitude about this problem with the girlfriend. She said, "Corporate America has no conscience." This is my philosophy about life and what I told her: In sixty years, most Caterpillar executives will be buried in a hole, no better than the hole I'll be buried in. I've been waiting nine years for Cat to do the right thing and resolve the issues with my defective engine. If you think nine years is a long time, consider how long eternity is. I'm no religious zealot, but I believe in karma and I try to live by the golden rule. What goes around, comes around. Take Toyota for example. Whether or not there's a divine existence that has a better place planned for us is far beyond me to decide, but I like to hedge my bet by doing the right thing - just in case.

Cat can continue to deny problems exist with its defective product, continue to skew the facts surrounding the reliability of its products and continue to market defective product to unsuspecting customers. One fact Cat can't deny and has to live with; eternity is a very long time to lay in the ground and reflect on your past deeds.

Storm

[blackwell50]

Between the faltering economy and the long standing engine problem, I've already lost most everything. Right now, my only choice is the cheapest way out of this mess - which is to fix what I already have. Call me gullible, but somehow I had a glimmer of hope that Cat reps were telling the truth about the reliability of the newer aftercoolers.

Mechanic says he knows someone that might be able to repair the cooler rather than replace. That's a new concept to me. Cat just trashes the old ones and charges me for the upgraded new ones. I still don't know whether or not I bent the connecting rods while cranking the engine.

I was discussing Cat's attitude about this problem with the girlfriend. She said, "Corporate America has no conscience." This is my philosophy about life and what I told her: In sixty years, most Caterpillar executives will be buried in a hole, no better than the hole I'll be buried in. I've been waiting nine years for Cat to do the right thing and resolve the issues with my defective engine. If you think nine years is a long time, consider how long eternity is. I'm no religious zealot, but I believe in karma and I try to live by the golden rule. What goes around, comes around. Take Toyota for example. Whether or not there's a divine existence that has a better place planned for us is far beyond me to decide, but I like to hedge my bet by doing the right thing - just in case.

Cat can continue to deny problems exist with its defective product, continue to skew the facts surrounding the reliability of its products and continue to market defective product to unsuspecting customers. One fact Cat can't deny and has to live with; eternity is a very long time to lay in the ground and reflect on your past deeds.

Storm

There is a lawsuit reguarding some of the inline six Cats,I'm pretty sure the 3176 and the 3196.I would look into that and see if you may benefit from a judgement against Cat.In the meantime,if you are running a commercial operation, I would look into getting a Lugger diesel.You may be able to find a used one or a recon for decent price.They are loud a little bit smoky but run well.

[blackwell50]

with seawater in the crankcase your motor is toast.Even if you get it turning again with no bent rods,you might end up with pitted bearings and piston tops,and scored sleeves

[blackwell50]

here's a link to some data on luggers http://www.northern-lights.com/lugger/older/index.html

[WAHOONBOX]

STORM ....THERE ARE ACTUALLY PEOPLE OUT HERE WHO UNDERSTAND LIKE YOURSELF THE VALUE AND RARITY OF THE DOLLAR TODAY....AND I APPLAUDE YOU FOR TRYING TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN WITHOUT SPENDING A BOAT LOAD OF CASH....

AND DON'T FRET THOSE THAT THAT BARK AT YOU HERE ........AND AT THE SAME TIME LEARN FROM THE KEYBOARD MISTAKES A COUPLE OTHERS WITH BOAT ISSUES HAVE MADE HERE ....FOR INSTANCE LIKE MR LEMON

GO ABOUT THIS PROFESSIONALLY ON THE KEYBOARD AND YOU WILL DO WELL I PROMISE...

[seapower]

I got a few questions for you. I'm not trying to defend Cat, bit are your "pin holes" on the air side or the raw water side of your after cooler core's? Have you checked to make sure you do not have a (ac/dc) voltage leak that is excellerating the electrolisis process. This is a yes or no answer, not a "well as far as I know". Are you keeping up with zincs as you should? Do you use "sealant" on you zinc plug's? If you do, don't!!! This only isnsulates the ground that the plug must make in order for the zincs to work properly. As you know you're not the only one to have this same problem, but if you have a "stray voltage" issue, it will mutiply the problem. As far as trying to "fix" your old cooler, yes you can repair the existing pin holes and it will pressue test fine, but the rest of the cooler has been subjected to your same problem. I wouldn't trust the wall thickness of the cooler, you'll be right back where you are now. One other thing, when the engine is out of service for a period of time ( I ask this because of where you live), do you drain the raw water from your aftercooler and other coolers? I suggest this to many people who's boats "lay over" for the winter,most look at me like I'm crazy and don't do it. But no salt water = no electrolisis. I commercial fished for many years and know where you are in your predicament. Just trying to help. Frank

[Storm]

Let's see if I can remember all of your questions.

My engine has no layup periods. I fish throughout the year. I keep the zincs replaced on an as needed basis. I am guilty of using teflon thread sealant on the zinc threads - as per detailed in Cat's service manual for my engine. My boat has two grounding plates installed on the transom and the zincs are maintained as needed. I dive on the boat and routinely check and replace the two rudder zincs, underwater grounding plate zinc for the cutlass, and the 2-1/2" shaft collar zinc. I prefer the expensive Godfrey collar zincs because they actually work.

I have no idea where the pinhole leaks are on the cooler. I just take Milton Cat techs' word that the coolers are junk and replace them. I have kicked myself severely hard in the ass for not keeping the last pinholed cooler that came off the engine. It may have had a good story to tell. I totally agree that repairing an aftercooler with electrolysis would probably be a mistake. Whether or not my cooler can be repaired depends upon the nature of the failure - which I haven't yet seen. According to Cat's service manual for my engine, every 1,000 service hours core should be inspected, pressure tested, cleaned, and repaired if necessary. From this I gather the core can be successfully repaired.

Since my aftercooler cores never see more than three years - which is far better than many 3196 cores, repairing an old core might not be a whole lot worse than installing a new one.

Cat has a million excuses for the aftercooler problem. Favorite strategy is to blame the customer. Engine is too low in the boat, owner abuse, improper maintenance, condensation. The fact remains, Cat admits to an 80-90% aftercooler failure rate. The bulk of incriminating evidence submitted by class attorneys during the class-action was sealed by the court. If you have nothing to hide, there's no reason to seal evidence. Despite eight aftercoooler upgrades in ten years, Cat did nothing to address electrolysis issues with these defective coolers. No design changes involved the addition of an aftercooler ground, or changes to material composition. Most changes included modification to the mounting hardware, seam and weld improvements.

My vessel is well grounded and I have no shore power. I'm not aware of any stray current. Zincs seem to have the expected lifespan based upon my knowledge and experience as a commercial fisherman for the past forty-ish years. I also worked part-time as a submarine mechanic for PNSY and my training included courses in metallurgy and strength of materials.

Oh yeah, after each fishing trip during the winter I winterize the entire raw water system with anti-freeze to prevent freeze-ups. It's probably important to point out that some 3196 aftercoolers froze and cracked during delivery because Cat techs never properly drained the new engines after dyno-testing. To the best of my knowledge, Cat has never issued a technical bulletin to owners suggesting the possibility that the coolers can freeze and crack if not properly protected. That also goes for the rework procedure to help eliminate aftercooler condensate. I'm not aware of any tech bulletins issued by Cat to owners warning of the condensate issue and detailing the rework procedure - which involves rerouting the raw water intake through the heat exchanger.

I recently spoke to an individual (another lobsterman) from Rhode Island who purchased a C12 last year (2009) and already replaced the aftercooler. Cat techs were on his boat for eighteen hours during a fishing trip trying to resolve other issues with his new engine. Apparently the techs couldn't believe the amount of smoke pouring from his engine.


I understand there is another class-action involving 3196 and C12s underway in Florida by the same attorneys as the previous suit.