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Thread: Wanted, Replacement Aftercooler for Cat 3196

  1. #11
    Stop staring at my Avatar. Storm's Avatar
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    Here is the ultimate scam. You go to a company like Caterpillar that is facing the potential of eight thousand individual defect lawsuits. You make an agreement with the company that; in exchange for a bundle of cash, you will make its life easier by pooling all lawsuits into one class-action and agree to a decertification in four years. You go to court for four years and display the ultimate dog and pony show. At the end of four years the class-act is decertified. Eight thousand potential lawsuits are averted because the statute of limitations expires after four years from the time of purchase.

    Storm
    Last edited by Storm; 02-06-2010 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #12
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    Storm,

    I'm on your side here. I asked the questions I did for a reason. Your's isn't the first. Think through the questions. Good luck, Frank

  3. #13
    Stop staring at my Avatar. Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seapower View Post
    I'm on your side here. I asked the questions I did for a reason. Your's isn't the first. Think through the questions. Good luck, Frank
    Trust me, I know where you're coming from on this. I've had nine years to try and figure out why my coolers continue to fail.

    First clue was when the engine was two years old and Cat decided to replace the cooler and cooling tube adapter plates. That was about a year after I asked the local Cat service department why my engine was losing power and if it might have something to do with the aftercooler. Service supervisor told me the aftercooler problem was resolved (already upgraded three times before I bought my engine) and it was probably the fault of the propeller.

    I have been in touch several times with the forensic materials expert for the class and discussed possible reasons for the failures as well as possible solutions. I'm also familiar with the presentations of the two expert witnesses for the class as well as all of Cat's mutiple design changes to the coolers.

    My engine failures - as bad as they may seem - pale in comparison to many other failures I am familiar with through the various emails I have received during the past four years. Some guys have gone through three complete sets (six) of engines. Some engines have failed at fifty hours. Because I use my engine for work and accumulate a lot of hours in a short period of time, I see failures quicker than the average Joe that uses his engine for recreation. Some recreational guys don't accumulate the service hours on their engines in ten years that I do in one year. Most marine 3196 and C12 engines are in recreational craft. This is why it sometimes irritates me when my engine problems get blamed on commercial use. When there's an eighty to ninety percent failure rate and the majority of users are recreational users, what does that tell you about the engines?


    Storm

  4. #14
    Stop staring at my Avatar. Storm's Avatar
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    Mr. Seapower Frank:

    Here's my scoop on these aftercoolers and what can be done to correct the problem.

    First, the condensate drain tubes leading from the cooler housing are approximately 1/8" I.D. Because of their small size, the tubes are easily plugged by soot, rust, and other debris inside the cooler housing. During the winter, fresh water condensate can freeze and plug the tubes. The two drain tubes lead to a condensate drain valve that contains a plunger. The plunger can also stick shut due to the aforementioned debris, soot, sludge - thereby not allowing condensate to drain.

    Solution: Despite all the problems with these aftercoolers and the fact that Cat is quick to blame condensation as the culprit, I am not aware of any attempts by Caterpillar to improve aftercooler drainage. My advice to Cat would be to enlarge the drain tubes.

    Second, the aftercooler core and cooling tubes that lead into the cooler housing are bronze, the housing is cast iron (to the best of my knowledge), and the core mounting hardware is steel. I believe there is electrolysis present between the dissimilar metals within the cooler housing - particularly when condensate is present. Dissimilar, wet metals are a recipe for disaster - a catalyst for electrolyis. The fact that 3196 and C12 engines are electronic engines aggravates this situation. The fuel injectors are electronic, the engine has an electronic control module, the throttle sensor is electronic, and there are various electronic sensors located in various engine locations. Even without electrolysis, these engines carry enough current to light up the presidential Christmas tree.

    Solution: Despite all of Cat's various design changes to the cooler core and mounting hardware, I am unaware of any attempts by Cat to resolve an electrolysis issue. Steps that could be taken include isolation of the various metals within the core housing, addition of grounding/bonding for the aftercooler core, and a change in the compsition of the various metals within the core housing. Currently, the aftercooler core has no zincs. A portion of the core protrudes through the core housing which might provide some level of grounding where the hosuing and core meet. This might not be the case when the housing is wet from condensate. This is my plan and my suggestion to Cat: A 1/4" hole can be drilled through the bronze core tab that protrudes through the rear of the cooler housing. A screw, terminal eye, and wire can be attached to the tab and connected with a jumper wire to a suitable ground on the engine (i.e. any bolt). Then, bonding wire can be connected at the bolt and run directly to a grounding plate. This should eliminate electyrolysis present in the core. Current present in the core can easily be checked with a voltmeter attached to the core tab where it protrudes from the housing. I would suggest doing this when the engine is running so the affect of various engine electronics can be measured.

    Third, since condensation and aftercooler leakage need to be kept in check at all times or risk catastrophic engine failure, my advice to Cat would be to provide some sort of monitoring device. My idea, while simple and crude, is to attach a length of clear tubing to the aftercooler condensate drain valve and then feed the tube into a clear collection bottle (clear plastic soda bottle will work). That way, the amount and color of aftercooler leakage can be determined every time the bottle is checked and emptied. Simple solution.

    The aftercooler core grounding wire and collection bottle idea are ideas that I came up with during the 2006 engine overhaul. I never followed through.

    Third, as I have previously stated, the aftercooler core is susceptible to damage from freezing during the winter months. I am not aware of any technical bulletins by Caterpillar advising about this situation or any attempts by Cat to study or remedy this situation. We know they freeze and crack, because it happened when a number of cooler cores were shipped without being properly drained after dyno-testing at the factory.

    Solution: Cat needs to study the potential for these coolers to fail due to freezing and provide customers with the insight to protect their coolers with anti-freeze during the winter months. The raw water supply to the coolers needs to be properly winterized w/ coolant during the winter months (cold climates) when temperatures can reach into the single
    digits.

    As Seapower Frank suggests, most importantly replace all engine zincs as needed. Unfortunately, Cat did not include any zincs at the cooler housing that might alleviate/reduce the potential for cooler core electrolysis. Three zincs protect the heat exchanger, two zincs protect the fuel cooler, two zincs protect the oil cooler. My advice to Cat is to correct this oversight.

    Storm
    Last edited by Storm; 02-07-2010 at 08:43 AM.

  5. #15
    Stop staring at my Avatar. Storm's Avatar
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    Update

    Pulled the injectors this morning. Engine still wouldn't turn. Appears to be a bent connecting rod, if not worse. Number five cylinder is full of either water or fuel. Sending injectors and aftercooler to be tested. Dismantled the engine this afternoon and craning it out tomorrow if all goes as planned.

    Decided not to use Cat for repairs this time - since they don't stand behind their product no matter who works on it. The upside is, I don't have to wait a week before somebody puts a wrench on the engine.

    It's a sad situation when a diesel engine needs to be overhauled three times in 11,000 service hours. I shouldn't be dealing with the first overhaul yet.

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