Scandal BY World Cat and Town Creek Marina

[Questsportfishing]

most world cats down here are outboard powered and I don't think they have any issues with them. did they total your boat by the way? everyone I know that has one really likes them most have 300 suzuki's...

[Sea Draggin]

most world cats down here are outboard powered and I don't think they have any issues with them.

Exactly, most are outboard powered, so this applies to almost no one. I would take one in a heart beat.

Sooooo World Cat, if you want to sponsor me, together we can put together my dream jigging boat, the Eastern Tackle edition World Cat.

[worldcat lemon]

Did I like it? Well I only fished it 2 days and it rode nice but it spent 363 days on the trailer because I couldn't keep it running. It looked good on the trailer and it was incredibly reliable on dry land.

I wish I had bought one with outboards, but I recently heard of one guy with a 33'te model where the hull is coming apart. Don't know if WC will fix his, but I hope they do.

There are other Cats out there that are great boats but a guy needs to really research the company and it's leaders integrity.

[Questsportfishing]

my question was ... did this boat get paid off in a totaled status? Sea Dragon ... you would look great in one!!!! But I am sure your rig would look like a pin cushion out there with rods sticking up all over the t-top area with at least a hundred jigs!!! BTW caught a really nice tua on one of your jigs down in andros island at 300' down ... took forever to get the fish up but was a blast! great product your putting out!

[Sea Draggin]

my question was ... did this boat get paid off in a totaled status? Sea Dragon ... you would look great in one!!!! But I am sure your rig would look like a pin cushion out there with rods sticking up all over the t-top area with at least a hundred jigs!!! BTW caught a really nice tua on one of your jigs down in andros island at 300' down ... took forever to get the fish up but was a blast! great product your putting out!

Yeah, the World Cat might sort of look like an anemone. Actually, that was what I was considering as I suggested a Jig Edition. I have some pretty good ideas for storage and quantities.

Anyway glad you like the jigs, but pics or the tuna didn't happen I am working on a new deep water tuna jig right now that you will like. Should have it in about 3 months.

[Fisherlady]

Dear Mr. Camp,

I apologize for not responding sooner. I had planned on responding to Marine4003s comment to you on 7/29/09, regarding my (Fisherlady) private message options. I also could not fully make up my own mind to submit a post here about the subject of the World Cat limited production diesel vessels that were sold new to consumers during 2004 and 2005, and then re-sold through dealers, during 2006, 2007, and 2008.

I presume it took me this long because I’ve seen the negative hits you’ve taken on this forum, and I wondered if I was strong enough, to endure the same, after what I have to say, but I think it’s worth doing and have decided to.

I wish to share with the Forum that a close relative of mine, who has loved fishing and boating, since he was 7 years old, purchased one of the World Cat 270 27’ diesel boats during 2005 (in brand new condition), but he has had his boat in 2 different Volvo-Penta "authorized" dealerships a total of 10 times, from the first week of new ownership, throughout the first two years of ownership.

There were only "10" of these diesel 270 series (ECS, HTS, …) boats made. You happened to get stung with one of them, during your 2008 vessel purchase and you had flown out to North Carolina to purchase it. My relative flew out to Alabama and bought his from Paradise Marine Center, in the Gulf Shores.

Sometimes his boat stayed in the shop for weeks or even months at a time in a two year period. Neither World Cat Reps, Volvo Penta, or the mechanics at the “authorized” dealership could fix the re-occurring problems it had. Naturally, all three lost interest in fixing his boat, just as soon as the 2-year warranty period had expired. His boat was dead on land, and everyone involved blamed everyone else, as to why no one in authority could fix the problems with it, but in hindsight, they didn't want to put any more money into it, because they knew it was a lost cause to fix anymore.

For the record, my relative drove his boat a TOTAL of 266 hours. He had purchased it brand new in 2005, as I mentioned, and paid $140,000 for the boat. He placed a $15,000 down payment on it, and has paid to date: $72,000 in payments, to the bank, but is forced to continue making his $1,118.00 in monthly boat payments, to his bank, so as not to ruin his good credit standing.

I have heard that this specific diesel boat is not even broken into, until it has reached the 500-hour range. His boat has been unoperatable for the past two years; at least, - the engines were rusting from water damage two years ago, and now they are 90% rusted (recently viewed, this month), and there were always constant alarms that would go off, soon after it started, and driven.

Numerous times, the boat had to be towed safely in to shore, because the engines had died, and he could not
re-start it, while out in the ocean.

I remember him telling me that one day, he and his friends stayed out all day in the ocean, to fish, but he had to keep the engine running the entire time, because he was afraid the boat would die, and he could not get it started again, or they'd be completely stranded.

I know I've been hearing the truth from Mr. Camp’s postings because the same things that he states about his boat’s malfunctionings are near duplicate problems with my relative's; however, I don’t think that he ran into NOT having the factory installed mandatory "water-in-fuel sensors" installed, in his boat, before he drove the boat back to the west coast, and didn’t find out about this major blunder, until two (2) years later.

This story of another boat owner is not a coincident … and I know it did not happen to only 2 of the 10 total owners.

The problem with these boats was because of the terrible hatch design that the manufacturer’s engineers created. If the hatches had protected the Volvo Penta engines, there would have been no occurrences of the water getting inside the inboards, and there’d be no complaints posted of such a thing happening, on any forum. These would have been regular boats with regular problems on occasion. We now know differently.

World Cat has beautiful boats, there’s no doubt. I do not slam how nicely they look on the outside and Volvo Penta has a great reputation with their engines, but between the bad hatch design and the D3-160s inboards, … as every other owner knows by now, regarding the diesel models, the boat does not run properly and has never run properly, for any decent length of time.

Hopefully, more of the other owners with the diesel 270 models, will share their stories, with readers who are interested in this thread. I know that there are. I think this is important to do because it also helps in some ways to know that it wasn’t just your own boat. That, it was also other boaters with the World Cat diesels, that this has happened to.

In my observation with my relative’s experiences, I witnessed that the manufacturer basically ignored his consumer’s cries, of what was occurring with his malfunctioning boat – especially DURING the warranty period. But, also after the warranty period. A lot of lying and deceit arose from the manufacturer and also down to the dealers. I understand 100% how and what Camp has gone through, because I saw my relative go through the same exact agony of getting his boat to work right.

If you buy a boat and the same questions never get resolved, you know you’ve been dupped. Usually, my relative couldn’t get real answers or solutions to, questions like:

“Why do the alarms keep going off? …; why is there less power in the starboard engine?; … why does it keep dying when I get a few miles out to sea?, - what is wrong with my boat and why can't it be fixed, because I’d love to be fishing again …” These are the complaints that my relative couldn’t get answered, and especially, could not get fixed, BY THE MECHANICAL EXPERTS.

You’ve basically paid out about $170,000 for a mere 266 hours of driving it, and you’ve lost many summers, where you haven’t been able to fish in even 3% of your money’s worth. When you can’t do something that you paid for, and you can’t get back on the water, because the thing that gets you out in the water, doesn’t work, how are you suppose to be happy, about that? And, stress?

Stressful? That’s an understatement.

This kind of thing literally steals your peace of mind eventually, it erupts your free time on weekends, when you use to go fishing all the time, it causes you heartache because you think after it’s been repaired, everything’s fine, and you’re back on the water again, only to learn .20 minutes out on the sea, that it’s not really fixed, ‘cause the alarms are ringing again and there’s less power in one of the engines, and you don’t want to get stranded again.

Oh, yes, I know what my relative went through. It slowly drains a man of his happiness – even when he says how strong he is – and how everything will work out about the boat – yes, I know my relative. This has totally and negatively invaded his life, and his family members.

The Forum critics can verbally attack any of the other World Cat diesel 270 27' Twin Diesel Volvo Penta D3-160 engine owners, who might one day share a part of their story, as I am doing right now, but would you please let them express it without putting them down, afterwards? They’ve got that right, I guess as much as you choosing, to bash their facts, feelings or thoughts, as I've read in these posts, toward Mr. Camp. I’d really appreciate any of you doing that, for them, in the future, if they do write in for the first time.

If it weren't for Mr. Camp's postings, our family would NEVER have known that there were any other World Cat diesel boaters out there, who had purchased the similar diesel boats, as us, - and who have had the same problems with it, as my family has. If he had been quiet and never told his story, it would have been my relative’s sole boating delimma, between him and the various boat entities responsible.

This story goes far beyond one man's plight with a slightly used World Cat boat purchase; and, at the very least, it is a company’s blatant legal and moral disregard for not being thorough and complete about building a good boat. A safe boat. A 100% functioning boat, - long before it leaves their facility, to be sold by their dealers in various states.

You new boaters out there, - whether you buy a diesel or gas vessel, - in your future,- go over everything that's "in writing," before you sign on the dotted line.

Go by NOTHING of what is said to you by a salesman, a saleswoman, a sales dealer or a sales manager. Especially by anyone from the manufacturer's office. Talk to as many current or past owners of the boat you want - as you can possibly talk to, and research months before your purchase, not weeks or days. And, whatever you do, don't fall in love with the beauty of the boat because the beauty is useless, without a solid service warranty and an honest manufacturer, who means it when he says in newspaper articles that he wants “all of his customers to be happy.”

Lisa from Town Creek was quoted in a North Carolina newspaper (The Southerner?) in 2007 (?), that the reason for her selling 3 million dollars worth of World Cat boats, was because the World Cat company was “honest,” and does right by its customers.

I broke out into laughter, when I read that statement. I honestly did.

In our case, it appears to be a major "hatch" boat design that ingests water directly into the (now, ruined) Volvo Penta inboard engines. There’s never been any “honesty” in admitting those specifics. Who knows? There may have been something additionally wrong with the D3-160s, as some reports have indicated, from boaters in the U.K., recently found on the internet. The point is, no one steps up and takes any responsibility toward the consumers of these lovely to take photos of, but sorry-disfunctioning boats.

Please read through Mr. Camp's advice and think it through. A boat is a huge purchase and obligation. You want to find and deal with honest manufacturers and dealers, who have proven they have a track record with excellence in integrity and honesty, when their customer, comes to them with either a minor or major problem, after the sale, and during the years of ownership.

I encourage the remaining owners of the World Cat 270 27' Diesel with Volvo Penta D3-160 hp twin diesel engines, to share your story, and to readers, to be aware of what you’ve heard on this forum.

I am an honest person who has nothing to gain by writing what I know about these boats and would swear in a court of law of what I know firsthand from seeing and hearing my relative’s World Cat diesel boat experiences, troubles, dead-ends and continual frustrations and disappointments, to get it fixed and running, since he’s owned it during 2005.

I have no particular interest in taking Mr. Camp’s side and had never heard of his plight with his boat until I started reading about it on www.sportfishermen.com, during June of 2009. I had never heard of him prior or spoken to him or known of him, if I had not started reading about his boating circumstances and his diesel World Cat boat, over a month ago.

I checked him out for myself with tons of questions, and so did my relative. The guy’s real; what he says really happened, and he’s done nothing except try and help us, as well as tell us to stand strong and share our particular story, if we felt it might help a little bit with the healing process. It may even help him a little. He is a victim of fraud, too.

As it is, in essence, I guess I am taking his side, because his story is the same as for my family’s. You can judge for yourself whether you think that I am a liar, as well, just like him, if you prefer. Nonetheless, I hope my writing, will bring some comfort to any one else out there who was also ripped off, just as we were, and encourage you to not give up; keep trying to get justice, if you haven’t already.

Yeah, a little miracle, such as a public apology to each family involved and a complete refund to any of the owners that still ask for it, if they weren’t reimbursed by an insurance company, would be welcome, but in our case, my relative has taken a major financial hit, and got virtually nothing for his money, and the heads at World Cat aren’t interested in making it right for him. They’re only interested in making some more money off of these 10 ripped off customers, my relative and Mr. Camp, for starters, that I know of, so far.

Perhaps others can learn from this thread. Perhaps you’ll be sharper from hearing about it. Perhaps you’ll fully realize that real honesty isn’t something you can buy; you either have it within you and utilize it throughout your business dealings in life, or you don’t have it, and never extend it anywhere, or to anyone, nor, especially to even yourself.

It’s really that simple, too.

I understand the President and CEO of World Cat, since 2002, is Andrew Brown, and that, as recently as July, 2009, instead of a complete refund, he offered a $80,000 credit toward a 2010 boat, but wanted $60,000 cash from my family to put toward the purchase, but my relative is still stuck with his remaining bank balance of $106,000, plus take on an additional loan debt?

For most of you very intelligent boaters out there, do those numbers add up to fairness?

These boats are major lemons and he has made a lot of money off of them.

That’s the CEO’s bottom line with this story of the World Cat diesel, and he knows it.

[worldcat lemon]

Wow, I hope wahooinbox and the other naysayers are paying attention.

World Cat made over a million bucks on this line of boats, and they are an absolute pile of floating dung. The most expensive bowel movement on the planet.

Hey Andrew, you need to put this fire out because the other owners are "mad as hell and they aren't gonna take it anymore". You need to step up and treat these people with some respect for being a customer and make things right for them. I am amazed that fisherlady has the guts to step forward and tell their story. She has more guts than you. At least she will put it out their in public forum.

Andrew, why don't you come on sf.com and tell your potential customers why you have ignored your existing customers when they have a problem, and it is YOUR company's fault. Don't have Phyllis respond for you, you need to step up to the plate, be a man, and let's put it on the table.

Hey Wahooinbox how about calling Andrew Brown and see if he has a good reason why he didn't recall these boats?

Fisherlady, I hope for your family's sake that Andrew and World Cat has some shred of decency left and they will put product integrity above GREED and make things right for you guys. Good luck.

It is amazing how a Volvo Penta diesel will only give you 300 hours max of service. I bet if Volvo knew the engine problems were due to a manufacturing defect they might want some of their warranty money back from World Cat. Hey Volvo are you listening? You have been ripped off too! I know Volvo products have to be better than that.

I sit stunned that fisherlady told her story. Who else out there has one of these lemons?

[worldcat lemon]

I'm just curious where all the people are who railed on me and called me a liar, insinuated my claims were overinflated, said I was only telling part of the story, and thought I was just some nutcase. This person has been fighting for World Cat to fix their boat since 2005. What kind of company treats their customers this way?

Now that another owner has come forward and told their story does anyone honestly believe that Phyllis Manning and Andrew Brown are telling the truth that "we stand behind our products"? Actually they stand behind their customers, but I can't say what they are doing TO their customers when they are behind them but i ASSure you the owners are not enjoying the experience.

If I were in the East or south I would be looking at Contender boats, and buy one from the cute gal on this site, but I would stay clear of companies who treat current customers this way.

[Sea Draggin]

I would still buy one, even after hearing about your experience. The JIG edition would come with 4 stroke Suzuki's though.

[marine4003]

I'm just curious where all the people are who railed on me and called me a liar, insinuated my claims were overinflated, said I was only telling part of the story, and thought I was just some nutcase. This person has been fighting for World Cat to fix their boat since 2005. What kind of company treats their customers this way?

Now that another owner has come forward and told their story does anyone honestly believe that Phyllis Manning and Andrew Brown are telling the truth that "we stand behind our products"? Actually they stand behind their customers, but I can't say what they are doing TO their customers when they are behind them but i ASSure you the owners are not enjoying the experience.

If I were in the East or south I would be looking at Contender boats, and buy one from the cute gal on this site, but I would stay clear of companies who treat current customers this way.

Like,I, we're bored with your chronic rant, Buddy : regardless of what you think of me...and mistaking my comment of "leaving it near Mexico" as anything other than what it was...tounge in cheek humor. It gets old. I, too am sorry for your misfortunes,and attempted to be simpathetic..but after beating this particular horse to DEATH..You will find the ones that were truly sympathetic to your cause..realize its a crusade for you,and as the saying goes.."get over it" you got your payoff..Keep this up and i can guarantee you'll get slapped with a defamation suit,Not that i wish this for you...but in these times..anything is possible.