Scandal BY World Cat and Town Creek Marina

[Sea Draggin]

I know a home inspector that makes sure that the new homeowners walk the entire house with him except for places that are unreasonable (attics, etc.), same should apply to a surveyor.

You should have seen the look on the real estate agents face, when I showed up to look at my current house for the first time in coveralls and workboots, flashlight in hand. I thought her eyes were going to pop out of her head.

I'm living in great, well built house right now.

[worldcat lemon]

1) Regarding salt water entry:
I was not informed of the problem by the first owner, the marina, or on my presale survey, until a couple of months later. The marina would not give me the first owners contact info so I could talk to him before the sale. They said " he doesn't want to talk to anyone about his boat. He just wants us to take care of the sale." I tracked him down through the title info later and then he told me of all the problems he had.

2) Regarding Service records: I requested the service records and receipts and was told they would be sent by certified mail. They have never arrived. I should have made them show me before the sale. Who would have ever thought a boat with so few hours would have more than a few minor things that might need fixing. According to the first owner he can not seem to get copies of his own service records. Why not?

3) Regarding Warranty Transfer: The only thing that would have been transfered was a HULL warranty "that part which is cast upon the water". I have full coverage insurance and this warranty would not cover mechanical problems, so why purchase it? Everyone keeps beating this dead horse, maybe their is something wrong with the hull that is a secret? My survey today, by my surveyor, will hopefully shed some light.

Did I make mistakes on this purchase? Absolutely !!!!! My reasoning said this is a DEALER for the manufacturer so I believe they will not sell a product that is anything less than at least functional. Anyone ever buy an engine from someone who said it had been rebuilt 10k miles ago and you found out later that this was not true? I should have flown my mechanic out to go through the boat.

4) Regarding Seatrial: I did seatrial the boat, after waiting 6 days while "repairs" were being done, and the boat seemed to run OK. My presale survey noted some vibration in the motors but he felt it was just the fact they were diesels. When I got it home the port motor would not start. Found out the port side mounting lags, for the motor mounts, had been stripped on reinstallation of the motor following "repairs" at the marina. Had to have some of the "repairs" redone. Someone at the marina tried to hide starboard side sponson damage with black spray paint, that occured while the boat was being loaded on my new trailer. There was a gouge 1/2" deep x1 1/4" w x 5" long on this sponson. I was told that " this will probably happen everytime you load the boat on the trailer". What?? Nobody told me the damage happened, I discovered it after we signed the papers. I suspect the port starter went out AFTER seatrial and it was loaded and rammed on the trailer using only the starboard motor.

There were alot of red flags I should have seen, but it is alot like Love, you don't really know what you got til ya get her home and the clothes come off, even though your friends tried to tell you.

Wahoonbox, you want more info? This is the tip of the iceberg. Not whining! Just info.

[nautiduck]

Can I give you a bit of advice? You seem to be dealing with an attorney already, but he doesnt seem to be worth the quarter you spent to call him. Any attorney worth a crap would have told you to keep your mouth shut and not defame (libel since this is the written word and it isnt going away any time soon) any parties your trying to deal with. If I were involved with any of the parties youve "spoke of" I would be speaking with an attorney of my own dealing with the defamation of character. Just so you are aware You may scream from the rooftops "but its the truth", guess what, that doesnt always matter in court. In fact if you arent able to prove it as absolute fact you run the risk of being said to have aggravated the harm. Anyway for the advice part, maybe for your own benifit its time to just stop talking (typing) and let your attorney handle it. Im sure the opposing parties attorneys are drooling at your threats to take your lemon on a cross country trip. I know when we have contract issues our attorneys love it when the opposing party runs their mouth. By the way I do feel bad for the issues your dealing with I would be rather upset myself if I spent that kind of money and had the troubles you are, I watched my brother go through it on his first boat, because he was to impatient to wait for me to come look at it. Third trip on it to the Bass Islands off of Sandusky OH and the engine dropped due to rotten stringers. Same scenario broker recomendded surveyor who had no insurance. Sorry tough shit you lose cant get blood from a stone, lesson learned, suck it up and deal. You may or may not have some recourse I wouldnt screw it up any further but thats your choice.

[WAHOONBOX]

LEMONHEAD....I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT YOUR BOAT DUDE....I DON'T CARE IF THERE IS MORE WATER INSIDE THE HULL THAN OUT.....I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH YOU PAID FOR THE BOAT EITHER ...I DON'T CARE IS YOU BROKE DOWN ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD IN BUNGHOLE WYOMING WITH A HERD OF RUTTING ELK ATTACKING YOU WHILE YOU CHANGED TIRES

ALL I CARE ABOUT IS YOUR SORRY ASS INTRODUCTION TO SFC BITCHING AND WHINING LIKE A PUNK ASS BABY WHEN... IN MY OPINION... THERE IS NOT A JURY IN THE WORLD THAT WILL SIDE WITH YOU.

I THINK TRAVELLING ACROSS COUNTRY TO BUY A WORLD CAT IS ABOUT ....SILLY....AND ON THE FLIP FLOP, THE ONLY REASON I WOULD TRAVEL TO WASHINGTON STATE WOULD BE TO FISH WITH MY BRO "FASTWATER"

IF ONLY YOU HAD DONE THIS DIFFERENT.....YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A ROOKIE AT THIS GAME.

IF ONLY YOU HAD NOT COME HERE WHINING LIKE A ***** IN HEAT...


AND ONE MORE THING QUIT SENDING PM'S TO HALF THE SFC CONTENGENCY HERE BITCHING AT THEM.....IT'S NOT OUR DANG FAULT DUDE! WE DIDN'T CREATE YOUR CRAPOLA!


LEMON I DON'T KNOW YOU AND VICE VERSA....YOU HAVE ENTERED 2 THREADS ON SFC AND FRIGGING STARTED YOUR BELLY ACHING.....THAT IS ALL I GIVE A SHIT ABOUT.

WHERE IS A PICTURE OF THE FABLED LEAKING HATCH? WHERE IS THE VIDEO OF YOUR BOAT BROKE DOWN IN WHEREVER?

PERSONALLY I'M CURED WITH YOU. I DON'T CARE IF THIS THREAD GOES ON FOR 5 YEARS......YOU SCREWED UP....YOU BOUGHT A USED BOAT...5 YRS OLD I BELIEVE...THAT WAS THE FIRST MISTAKE TO ME....150 HRS???? WHERE WAS IT SITTING WHEN YOU PICKED IT UP? A SHOWROOM??? I PUT A 150HRS ON ONE JUST THINKING ABOUT GOING OFFSHORE! ........150 HRS.....

"THIS CAR WAS DRIVEN BACK AND FORTH TO SCHOOL 3 MILES BOTH WAYS FOR 6 YEARS & SERVICED BY HENRY FORD THE 7TH EVERY MONTH....AND OWNED BY A 70 YR OLD SCHOOL TEACHER ...."


NOW.....NOW I WILL DO SOME INTERENT REPORTING


WORLD CAT .....WANT TO TALK TO ME? I DOUBT IT

TOWN CREEK?....SAME THING PROBABLY...I LIVE IN MHC SO I CAN BE THERE IN A NANNA SECOND

I KNOW YOU BOTH ARE READING WITH EYES WIDE OPEN HERE

SO EITHER OF YOU SEND ME A PM IF YOU WANT TO TELL YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY


WE HAVE ALREADY HEARD LEMON'S VERSION....ALL 41K OF US...PLUS THE 401,000 UNIQUE VISITORS THAT JUST READ SFC AND NEVER LOG ON....

RIGHT NOW.... "ALL AMERICAN REJECTS" IS IN CONCERT SINGING "SWING SWING" ON PALADIA HD CHANNEL AND I WANT TO GO WATCH THEM WHILE I EAT MY BABY BACKS & AND GRILLED GROUPER.....DOUCHED DOWN WITH SWEET ICE SUNTEA W/LEMON....3 SLICES

[pitch bait]

I am a Marine surveyor. Was the surveyor a SAMS or NAMS member? I would love to look over the survey. There are certain guide lines that we as surveyors have to follow. Sometimes the surveyor can be liable and is sued. Was there any prior investagation into this type of boat proir to the purchase? Did you ask the surveyor prior to hiring him if he is familiar with this type of boat? Did he evaluate the vessel on a standard such as

The terms and words used in this report have the following meanings as used in this Report of
survey:
APPEARS:
Indicates that a very close inspection of the particular system, component or item was not
possible due to constraints imposed upon the surveyor(e.g. no power available, inability to
remove panels, or requirements not to conduct destructive tests).
FIT FOR INTENDED USE:
Use which is intended by Survey Purchaser(present or prospective owner).
SERVICEABLE: ADEQUATE:
Sufficient for a specific requirement.
POWERS UP:
Power was applied only. This does not refer to the operation of any system or component
unless specifically indicated.
EXCELLENT CONDITION:
New or like new.
GOOD CONDITION:
Nearly new, with only minor cosmetic or structural discrepancies noted.
FAIR CONDITION:
Denotes that system, component or item is functional as is with minor repairs. (MONITOR
OFTEN)
POOR CONDITION:
Unusable as is. Requires repairs or replacement of system, component or item to be
considered functional.

Then there could be a section that looks like this
STATEMENT OF OVERALL VESSEL RATING OF CONDITION:
It is the surveyor's experience that develops an opinion of the OVERALL VESSEL RATING OF
CONDITION After a the survey has been completed and the findings have been organized in a logical
manner.
The grading of condition, developed by BUC RESEARCH, and accepted in the marine industry, for a vessel
at the time of survey, determines the adjustment to the range of base values in the BUC USED BOAT
PRICE GUIDE, for a similar vessel sold within a given time period, as a consideration to determine the
Market Value.
The following is the accepted marine grading system of condition:
''EXCELLENT (BRISTOL) CONDITION'', is a vessel that is maintained in mint or bristol
fashion - usually better than factory new - loaded with extras - a rarity.
''ABOVE AVERAGE CONDITION'', has had above average care and is equipped with extra
electrical and electronic gear.
''AVERAGE CONDITION'', ready for sale requiring no additional work and normally equipped
for her size.
''FAIR CONDITION'', requires usual maintenance to prepare for sale.
''POOR CONDITION'', substantial yard work required and devoid of extras.
''RESTORABLE CONDITION'', enough of hull and engine exists to restore the boat to usable
condition.
As a result of my investigation, as shown in the SYSTEMS AND FINDINGS AND
RECOMMENDATIONS section of this REPORT OF SURVEY, and by virtue of my experience, my
opinion is
OVERALL VESSEL RATING:
AVERAGE

Then he should have ended in something like this
SUMMARY:
In accordance with the request for a marine survey of the "World Cat" , for the purpose of evaluating its
present condition and estimating its Fair Market Value and Replacement Cost, I herewith submit my
conclusion based on the preceding report. The subject vessel was personally inspected by the undersigned on
"such and Such Date" and was found to be a well constructed (or isnt), appointed and comfortable vessel (or isnt). The vessel is very
capably captained and well-kept (or isnt). Subject to correction of deficiencies listed in section IV A. (Safety), the
vessel is considered to be suitable for its intended use. Other deficiencies list should be attended to in a
timely fashion.
SURVEYOR'S CERTIFICATION:
I certify that, to the best of my knowledge and belief:
The statements of fact contained in this report are true and correct.
The reported analyses, opinions, and conclusions are limited only by the reported assumptions and
limiting conditions, and are my personal, unbiased professional analyses, opinions, and
conclusions.
I have no present or prospective interest in the vessel that is the subject of this report, and I have no
personal interest or bias with respect to the parties involved.
My compensation is not contingent upon the reporting of a predetermined value or direction in
value or direction in value that favors the cause of the client, the amount of the value estimate, the
attainment of a stipulate result, or the occurrence of a subsequent event.
I have made a personal inspection of the vessel that is the subject of this report.
This report is submitted without prejudice and for the benefit of whom it may concern.
ATTENDING SURVEYOR:


So if there are things in the survey that were not reported and are unserviceable or broke. I believe you issue might be with the surveyor not the marina.

[AquaholicFishing]

You should have seen the look on the real estate agents face, when I showed up to look at my current house for the first time in coveralls and workboots, flashlight in hand. I thought her eyes were going to pop out of her head.

I'm living in great, well built house right now.

That's classic Sea Draggin! . He makes sure to cover everything and encourages them to ask questions if they have any while going through the house. It's his job to know what's right and wrong and to point out things that the new owners need to be made aware of.

[LuckyLady]

What a spin on this one.

In regards to Bobby pitch bait and the accredited surveyor.

Bobby is a great surveyor better than most that I have dealt with over the years.

There are some surveyors that SAMS should be ashamed of.

Just like service techs you can't judge your people until you see what they do and if they truly care about thier work.

There is a lot of under-cutters in the industry from Brokers, Salesmen or women and techs.

If they truly care about thier work they will leave no stone unturned and be very through and detailed.

I have even had accredited surveyors that were said to be good and when I got the final product/report I was disappointed and embarrassed.

The standard protocal for boat sales and surveyors any good dealer will give you a list and not directly refer anyone and let you choose.

Being that I have been in the industry so long I have been told that there are surveyors that take the dealers side. Which is very wrong in my book, because you are playing with a persons earned money, lives etc. A POS boat should be dumpsterfied in my book.

I will vouch for Pitchbait in his quality of surveys, he spends more time than most making sure of his reporting accuracy.

I wish everyone the best in this situation, these ones certainly suck and there are no winners in these types, everyone loses something with it outside of time and a whole lot of money.

I apologize if I jumped to any conclusions before hearing the full story. I'm flustrated to the max with people in this industry and others like Berny Maidoff etc

There is so much BS going on in this industry that people should be shot and hung over.

Like people taking deposits and payment in full not delivering title and running with them because they can't finish building their 7 million dollar home on the water in FLL and have to make payments on their lamborghinis.

This is a whole different thread to come here... Thank god I haven't been bit yet but unfourtunatly others are...Just sad that there is so much scum in this world right now!!!

[wide open]

box/pitch--well said. i fished on one of those things a few weeks ago, worst ever...should have called it sneeze cat. misty wet all day!!

[frankypettolina]

I have followed this thread for a while. There have been some good points made.

It sounds to me like there are sides to this story that have not been told, by all parties. The fellow that bought the boat has his version of events, the seller has theirs, and i am sure the surveyor has his/hers. It is easy for us to judge any of the people involved, but without seeing the boat, the survey, or the boat the day of the survey for that matter there is alot we will never know as we sit at the keyboard. Also, we never saw the contract, or heard the verbal negotiations and what was offered and what wasn't.

Like Bobby/pitchbait, I too am a surveyor. I have been since 1995. He lists some good points about things that should appear in the survey. I whole heartedly believe that the surveyor should have seen signs of corrosion on the engines if the hatches were leaking as bad as described. BUT, I also would have to believe that the buyer should have seen this also- and maybe asked the surveyor about it. Also, was a mechanic hired to perform an engine inspection?- that is standard in a pre-purchase survey unless the buyer CHOOSES not to have it done. Were the engines cleaned up and freshly painted to hide corrosion? There are a lot of unanswered questions.

Again, interesting thread, sorry to hear about all of the problems, and I hope it gets resolved.

[fowlscay]

MY surveyor does not do motor surveys , which I don,t know any who do . Mine ( Franky ) will go the sea trial which is the most important thing to do I think when you are buying a used boat especially when he turned down the chance to switch the warranty to his name . So any thing WC does for this guy is good will . This guy has been sending me pms on this and I keep telling him that they will help him, but he has got to let them !!!!They have all ways taken care of my customers all the way back to the SEA OX days . He just has to work with them . I will have to give him credit for his 1st post , he sure has gotten a lot of play on it !!!
Tommy